[Q] Dual Wield - [Answered]

[Pyrizzle]

hmmm .. bace AP cost for barehanded attack is 4, Jof and marrowtaint reduces this to 3.. IMO dual wiels skill with dagger profience is oretty nice one... if you using some other dagger tha qsd..


good hunting

Is barehand affected by jof and marrowtaint? Havnt tested myself.

Yes, the Jewel of Fallhaven or Marrowtaint will effect the Attack cost of whatever weapon you are using (Swords, daggers, bare hands, axes, etc)

[fiernaq]

Blackwater Dagger: 40% AC, 1 AD, 5% BC
DotSP: 20% AC, 1-2 AD, 20 Crit
QSD: 20% AC, -20% BC

Fighting Style: Dual Wield: Gives benefits when fighting with two weapons at the same time, one in the main hand and one in the off-hand.
Without this skill, only 25% of a weapon's qualities may be used when equipped in the off-hand. This includes attack chance, critical skill, damage potential and block chance. Without this skill, attack speed (AP cost) of making an attack is the sum of the attack speed of the main weapon and that of the weapon used in the off-hand.
With one level of this skill, 50% of the off-hand's weapon's qualities may be used, and the attack speed is the attack speed of the weapon in the main hand plus 50% of the attack speed of the weapon in the off-hand.
With two levels of this skill, 100% of the off-hand's weapon's qualities may be used, and the attack speed equals the highest of the attack speeds of the two equipped weapons.

Wielding two of each of the above daggers at a time does the following to your stats:
BWD: 50% AC, 1 AD, 6% BC (gain of 10% AC and 1% BC for 11 total additional stats)
DotSP: 25% AC, 1-2 AD, 25 Crit (gain of 5% AC and 5 Crit for 10 total additional stats)
QSD: 25% AC, -40% BC (gain of 5% AC and loss of 20% BC for negative 15 total stats)

Wielding two of each of the above daggers at a time and gaining 1 point in Fighting Style: Dual Wield does the following to your stats:

BWD: 60% AC, 1 AD, 7% BC (gain of 20% AC and 2% BC for 22 total additional stats)
DotSP: 30% AC, 1-3 AD, 30 Crit (gain of 10% AC, 1 max AD and 10 Crit for 21 total additional stats)
QSD: 30% AC, -40% BC (gain of 10% AC and loss of 20% BC for negative 10 total stats)

Wielding two of each of the above daggers at a time and gaining 2 points in Fighting Style: Dual Wield does the following to your stats:

BWD: 80% AC, 2 AD, 10% BC (gain of 40% AC, 1 AD, and 5% BC for 46 total additional stats)
DotSP: 40% AC, 2-4 AD, 40 Crit (gain of 20% AC, 1-2 AD, and 20 Crit for 41-42 total additional stats)
QSD: 40% AC, -40% BC (gain of 20% AC and loss of 20% BC for a groundbreaking break even 0 total additional stats)

Conclusion: Fighting Style: Dual Wield helps some weapons more than it helps others.

*not entirely sure how AD behaves when you have a multiplier on a range of AD (example: 1-2 AD)

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Of course I say all this about the skills but I don't think the skills are the main problem. I think the source of the problem is the static numbers on equipment. viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4141 and viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4096 both discuss this issue in more detail but I'll sum it up here briefly:

Method 1: static numbers on player only, allows multipliers
Add all stats to the player directly either through level ups, quest rewards, permanent effects from rare consumables, etc.. Every item, and everything temporary (consumables, effects/conditions) should only provide multipliers of those base stats. Individual item balance is achieved by adjusting multipliers while game-wide balance is achieved by adjusting base stats.

Method 2: static numbers on everything, no multipliers
The player should have relatively few base stats with either hard caps in place or just make it extremely difficult to obtain more. Basically, make player stats a legendary thing. All items, skills, effects, and whatnot are given base stats as well. Individual item balance is achieved by adjusting that items stats while game-wide balance is achieved by adjusting the stats of everything.

Current Method: hybrid
The player has quite a few base stats with virtually unlimited potential through level ups. Most items have base stats but skills and a few other things have multipliers that work against everything you have. Individual item balance is achieved by making all items identical or very close to identical while game-wide balance is achieved by modifying the multipliers and just figuring that ppl with inordinately high amounts of base stats or very low base stats don't complain that they're not close to the average.

Of course, there are problems with each of those methods and I did want to highlight what I see as the biggest concern for each method. Method 1 can quite easily be exploited if developers aren't very careful because multipliers can quickly reach very big numbers. Suggest a database of all items be kept that links all possible combinations so that you can easily tell when you add a new item whether or not it will allow a player to reach too high a multiplier. Method 2 just requires a lot of micromanagement of items. Assume that you will spend a lot of time balancing the many possible combinations but once in place it becomes fairly simple and easy for players to understand although not having player stats can be a big turn-off for many potential players. The current hybrid system could theoretically work but the more items and skills and effects you add the more complex it will become. Players with high or low base stats will throw your numbers off and you will be forced to compromise one way or the other.

[carceris-magister]

With the double-wield skill, do bonuses (like +6 damage rings) apply to both weapons, or only to the two as a whole? Wondering if two +6 damage rings will give me +12 or +24 for each hit once the skill is at level 2.

Thanks, CM

[rijackson741]

Yes, the description doesn't say that for a negative block chance you always get the full negative chance from the offhand weapon, regardless of what skill level you have.

*not entirely sure how AD behaves when you have a multiplier on a range of AD (example: 1-2 AD)

Treat the lower number and the higher number independently. For all numbers other than negative block chances multiply by either 1.25, 1.5, or 2, and round down to the nearest integer.

The one thing that I am not sure about is how actor effects work with the off-hand weapon. I know you get them, even with no levels of the dual wield skill, because I tried it. I didn't check whether or not the probability of the effect is affected by the skill level though (or in a few cases, whether the number of added HP is affected). I don't have an old save game I can go back to that wold allow me to check this.

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They apply to the two as a whole (or. perhaps more accurately, they apply to your character, not the weapon(s)). So two rings would give +12 damage, regardless of the skill level.

[fiernaq]

With the double-wield skill, do bonuses (like +6 damage rings) apply to both weapons, or only to the two as a whole? Wondering if two +6 damage rings will give me +12 or +24 for each hit once the skill is at level 2.

Thanks, CM

Dual Wield skill does not affect rings. Each ring applies to your character, not to a weapon, so if you wear 1 ring you gain +6 and if you wear 2 rings you gain +12. I don't think there's a skill out there yet that affects rings.

[Mino]

DotSP: 20% AC, 1-2 AD, 20 Crit

Wielding two of each of the above daggers at a time and gaining 2 points in Fighting Style: Dual Wield does the following to your stats:

DotSP: 40% AC, 2-4 AD, 40 Crit (gain of 20% AC, 1-2 AD, and 20 Crit for 41-42 total additional stats)

Nice comparison, but unless there's a glitch, you shouldn't be able to get 2 DotSP since it's a boss drop.
I've been using the Balanced steel sword with the Superior iron dagger. I suppose I could use 2 BSS but I like picturing my character with a sword and dagger.

[Pyrizzle]

DotSP: 20% AC, 1-2 AD, 20 Crit

Wielding two of each of the above daggers at a time and gaining 2 points in Fighting Style: Dual Wield does the following to your stats:

DotSP: 40% AC, 2-4 AD, 40 Crit (gain of 20% AC, 1-2 AD, and 20 Crit for 41-42 total additional stats)

Nice comparison, but unless there's a glitch, you shouldn't be able to get 2 DotSP since it's a boss drop.
I've been using the Balanced steel sword with the Superior iron dagger. I suppose I could use 2 BSS but I like picturing my character with a sword and dagger.

He had a map population error and was able to collect a second one because a one time spawn NPC respawned.
Yep, there was a glitch

[sorrow]

I see you all like the backwater dagger but you do know the poisonous dagger is better

[Pyrizzle]

Poisoned or non-poisoned:

Inflict a Status effect or have an extra 5% BC....

IMHO: Both are equally as good.

[sorrow]

Well what I'm getting at is duel weild 2 poisonous daggers would be better then non poisonous daggers