Andor's Trail

Roguelike RPG on Android
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What do you think about save-cheating?
I love it! Can't live without it. 23%  23%  [ 9 ]
I use it now and then. 36%  36%  [ 14 ]
I use it only in extreme situations, like boss battles. 21%  21%  [ 8 ]
I try to never use it. 8%  8%  [ 3 ]
I never use it. 5%  5%  [ 2 ]
I feel a change needs to be done to discourage it. 8%  8%  [ 3 ]
Total votes : 39
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 3:14 am 
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der_Hosenwyrm wrote:
Why not remove the option to save entirely? :twisted:


I have a simple answer: (but it might not be the right one)
Auto-save, no more save cheats. If you die its too late maybe you shouldn't have been wondering out so far. This way there is no saving and reloading, plus if your phone force closes you already have your progress saved.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 8:39 am 
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tek wrote:
I'm not a fan of this idea as it can be abused severely :!:
Plus, it makes the game easier.
nyktos wrote:
easier = bad

:evil:

but i think he is talking about making it harder,
unless i misunderstood?

:twisted:


It is in fact both!!!

It is easier, as you can go back to a good state, when bad things happen. (E.g. You enter a cave with zillions of bonemeal and what not. When all potions are used up and you are still in the cave you can just save and all potions are back.)

But it is also much harder! (E.g. you fight through this dark dungeon and there is this bad spot in the end of the area. You would like to but can not save right in front of this spot with four mobs you have to encounter at once. When you die, you have to conquer the whole area again!)

Who could abuse this in what way?


Only autosaving is really bad as there would be no way to save to another save file. Think about what had to be done in BWM to help the people out of the abandoned house ...
Also this way you would have to play the whole game again for every little quest decision you make.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 8:46 am 
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Pyrizzle wrote:
der_Hosenwyrm wrote:
Why not remove the option to save entirely? :twisted:


I have a simple answer: (but it might not be the right one)
Auto-save, no more save cheats. If you die its too late maybe you shouldn't have been wondering out so far. This way there is no saving and reloading, plus if your phone force closes you already have your progress saved.


IMO this make the game too hard and frustrating for the casual player.

Hardscore and insane (like me) players and members of ATA probably like this :twisted:

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..dansing left foot polka with Hirathil

Lvl 313|XP 559721474|Gold 7965188|AP 3/12|AC 516|AD 161-175|ECC 48|CM 6|BC 311|HP 591|DR 2|RoLS 3|RoL 2|ElyR 2|ChaR 45|GoLF 3|ShaF 9|SRoV 28|VSH 13|GoW 1|WMC 1


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 2:16 pm 
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Location: Somewhere between here and there... I'm lost...
Well, from what I've gathered so far, this may be the be way to solve this would be...

Have the game auto-save at each map section but allow saving in inns and home. Making use of abandoned cabins may also be a good idea for saving. ;)

But that's just my take on a good solution for the posts I've seen so far. Sorta taking taking everything I've read together to make just about everyone happy. :D

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 2:32 pm 
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DarkSavant13 wrote:
Well, from what I've gathered so far, this may be the be way to solve this would be...

Have the game auto-save at each map section but allow saving in inns and home. Making use of abandoned cabins may also be a good idea for saving. ;)

But that's just my take on a good solution for the posts I've seen so far. Sorta taking taking everything I've read together to make just about everyone happy. :D


+1 I like this solution. It still allows somekind save -cheating, but you need to exit game before death and then shoose continue current game.

And it disables my multi grinding strategy - using 3-4 identical savegames when grinding legendary item you dont need to wait respan...

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Sarumar
..dansing left foot polka with Hirathil

Lvl 313|XP 559721474|Gold 7965188|AP 3/12|AC 516|AD 161-175|ECC 48|CM 6|BC 311|HP 591|DR 2|RoLS 3|RoL 2|ElyR 2|ChaR 45|GoLF 3|ShaF 9|SRoV 28|VSH 13|GoW 1|WMC 1


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 5:37 pm 
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Piggy the Slayer wrote:
No save in battle. You enter into a battle you should not be able to save until the fight is over. If that fight ends in your defeat then you have your previous save to fall back on or you take it on the chin and suffer the xp loss. IMHO.


You already can't save during battle as of v0.6.10, so that's taken care of. This topic has been brought up before, but I can't remember if it was in its own topic or came up in discussing something else.

I put my vote for "Love it, can't live without it!", but only because that's the closest answer available among the choices. I don't consider it cheating to use something available in the game, but I use save often so I don't lose any progress if I have to suddenly stop playing (or in case of a phone reboot or other technical problem not from the game - been having some issues with my Galaxy Nexus).

The bottom line is, this is a phone game, and restricting when players can save will also restrict when they can play. Right now, I can start up the game, play even just 1 or 2 minutes while waiting in a line or on a break at work, and as soon as I need to stop (as long as its not mid-battle), I can save and exit. This allows us to play at any time without worrying about losing any progress. If I can only save at certain spots, then I won't be able to play as often because I'll have to make sure I have time to get to a save spot, or it'd be a waste of time to play and just lose all my progress. This becomes more important the higher level you get because it takes more and more XP to level up.

Besides the abundant loss of XP on dying, there's also the issue of being sent back to the last place of rest. As the map gets bigger and bigger with each update, it takes longer to go from one town to another. I sometimes use the save as I travel between towns just in case I die so I don't have to spend time starting the journey again.

Another thing I haven't see mentioned, is wanting to save immediately after getting a Legendary Item. You better believe I want to be able to save immediately if I finally manage to get a RoLS, ElyR or ROL. And if I can't because I have to go to a cabin, or some other location and die along the way, everyone around will hear my screams of anguish, depending on how long it took to get the drop.

I see a lot of posts from people wanting to impose their own set of RPG values to how everyone else plays. In this case, my opinion is to leave the save function as is, and if anyone personally doesn't want to use it to "cheat" by reloading to a pre-death state, then practice some self-restraint and don't use it. I will continue to use it so I can play whenever I have even a little free time, knowing I won't lose any progress as long as I save before exiting.

Just my 5 cents (seems too long to call it 2 cents)

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Lvl: 206 XP: 159262572, Gold: 1657119, RoLS: 2, ElyR: 1, RoL: 1, ChaR: 2, GoLF: 1, ShaF: 6, SRoV: 1, VSH: 6, WMC: 1, GoW: 1
HP: 241, AP: 3, AC: 562%, AD: 116-130, CM: 3.0, ECC: 38%, BC: 139%, DR: 3

IF 1, Reg 1, CE 1, Ev 3, Clv 2, MC 3 QL 25, MF 2

7/9/14


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 5:55 pm 
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You don't have to save the game when you stop playing. It does not matter whether you just jump to the main screen and back to the game or reboot the phone. With my first character I haven't saved once in the first weeks.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 6:28 pm 
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Mino wrote:
Piggy the Slayer wrote:
No save in battle. You enter into a battle you should not be able to save until the fight is over. If that fight ends in your defeat then you have your previous save to fall back on or you take it on the chin and suffer the xp loss. IMHO.


You already can't save during battle as of v0.6.10, so that's taken care of. This topic has been brought up before, but I can't remember if it was in its own topic or came up in discussing something else.

I put my vote for "Love it, can't live without it!", but only because that's the closest answer available among the choices. I don't consider it cheating to use something available in the game, but I use save often so I don't lose any progress if I have to suddenly stop playing (or in case of a phone reboot or other technical problem not from the game - been having some issues with my Galaxy Nexus).

The bottom line is, this is a phone game, and restricting when players can save will also restrict when they can play. Right now, I can start up the game, play even just 1 or 2 minutes while waiting in a line or on a break at work, and as soon as I need to stop (as long as its not mid-battle), I can save and exit. This allows us to play at any time without worrying about losing any progress. If I can only save at certain spots, then I won't be able to play as often because I'll have to make sure I have time to get to a save spot, or it'd be a waste of time to play and just lose all my progress. This becomes more important the higher level you get because it takes more and more XP to level up.

Besides the abundant loss of XP on dying, there's also the issue of being sent back to the last place of rest. As the map gets bigger and bigger with each update, it takes longer to go from one town to another. I sometimes use the save as I travel between towns just in case I die so I don't have to spend time starting the journey again.

Another thing I haven't see mentioned, is wanting to save immediately after getting a Legendary Item. You better believe I want to be able to save immediately if I finally manage to get a RoLS, ElyR or ROL. And if I can't because I have to go to a cabin, or some other location and die along the way, everyone around will hear my screams of anguish, depending on how long it took to get the drop.

I see a lot of posts from people wanting to impose their own set of RPG values to how everyone else plays. In this case, my opinion is to leave the save function as is, and if anyone personally doesn't want to use it to "cheat" by reloading to a pre-death state, then practice some self-restraint and don't use it. I will continue to use it so I can play whenever I have even a little free time, knowing I won't lose any progress as long as I save before exiting.

Just my 5 cents (seems too long to call it 2 cents)


+1 Excellent explanation. And good point, becauce IMO if there are not opportunity to save anytime, we probably lose many players... Because even nowadays there are only few of us who knows about the current autosave or/ and understand how it works and / or can trust it ;)

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..dansing left foot polka with Hirathil

Lvl 313|XP 559721474|Gold 7965188|AP 3/12|AC 516|AD 161-175|ECC 48|CM 6|BC 311|HP 591|DR 2|RoLS 3|RoL 2|ElyR 2|ChaR 45|GoLF 3|ShaF 9|SRoV 28|VSH 13|GoW 1|WMC 1


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 7:00 pm 
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Bard wrote:
You don't have to save the game when you stop playing. It does not matter whether you just jump to the main screen and back to the game or reboot the phone. With my first character I haven't saved once in the first weeks.


I guess you never grew up hearing "always save your work as you go"? It was mostly meant for writing papers, but still applies to games. Even though I haven't seen it yet in this game, I have other games where I was "unable to reload", and it only has to happen once to be a pain.

Also, some of us play more than 1 game, so the saving allows me to go back to the last point I was at on any of them, not just the last one I played. I currently have 3 separate games going, thanks to the extra save slots.

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Lvl: 206 XP: 159262572, Gold: 1657119, RoLS: 2, ElyR: 1, RoL: 1, ChaR: 2, GoLF: 1, ShaF: 6, SRoV: 1, VSH: 6, WMC: 1, GoW: 1
HP: 241, AP: 3, AC: 562%, AD: 116-130, CM: 3.0, ECC: 38%, BC: 139%, DR: 3

IF 1, Reg 1, CE 1, Ev 3, Clv 2, MC 3 QL 25, MF 2

7/9/14


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 7:30 pm 
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As I grew up there was no need to save the work separately. It was done while writing it "down on paper". ;)
I just thought you weren't aware of the possibility, that you can continue a game without saving.


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