Guide to Picking a Build

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Voom
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Re: Guide to Picking a Build

Post by Voom » Wed May 31, 2017 6:24 pm

Antison wrote:
Wed May 31, 2017 4:49 pm
I'm feeling pretty dumb right now. What are we supposed to do with the excel file?
Once you've downloaded it, click on each equipment slot or number and press the arrow. It will give you various options to choose from. Create and experiment with any build that you want. The results of your build are the numbers to the right and the radar chart. They change as you choose the different skills and equipment.
Voomster Lvl 23 |HP 52 |AC 173% |AD 17-52 |ECC 20% |CM 3.0 |BC 61% |DR 2 Build 2/3221/0

Voomboy Retired at 41 and is reading The Fey of Feygard
Voom Retired at 46 and took up translating

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rijackson741
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Re: Guide to Picking a Build

Post by rijackson741 » Wed May 31, 2017 11:37 pm

I put in the numbers for my main build, and the numbers you calculate are very close to the actual stats. Yours : Actual
HP 194 : 196
AD 51-59 : 49-59
BC 129 : 127

HP could be because I don't remember exactly when I took IF. I don't know where the other differences might come from. It's at least as likely to be my mistake as yours though :D

A couple of notes:
You don't calculate or display ECC, which is much more useful than CS.
You are missing a Floor function for AC, because I get a non-integer number.

It would be useful to explain the relationship between Immunity, Speed, Strength, Potency, Endurance and the actual AT stats.
Level: 64, XP: 4734786, HP: 196, AC: 246%, AD: 49-59, AP: 3, ECC: 25%, CM: 3, BC: 127%, DR: 2
Gold: 232355 | RoLS: 1, RoL: 1, GoW: 1
HH: 1, CS: 2, IF: 4, Ev: 3, Re: 2, WP:DA: 1, WP:1S: 1, AP:L: 1, FS:DW: 2, S:DW: 1
SR

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Voom
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Re: Guide to Picking a Build

Post by Voom » Thu Jun 01, 2017 2:07 am

I'm happy this works. Thanks for testing it out, rijackson.

Those differences are all small enough that they seem like rounding errors. But maybe it is something else. I would like to know when the actual game applies rounding (before or after the sum of all factors that comprise each stat). Could you share your excel file so I can see what the discrepancies might be?

Yes, I think that replacing CS with ECC would be more useful. I can definitely add the missing floor function.

For the radar chart, just scroll to the right and you will see a small box with those 5 attributes. Click on them to see the formulas. Generally, this visual is more of an arbitrary one because it compares min AD with max AD and AC; among other things. It is not made to be 100% relied upon and is just for the sake of having a visual. Here is the rundown:
Immunity = HP/260
Speed = (your APR/max APR)*90% + (your MovesPR/max MovesPR)*10% --> max APR is 6, max MovesPR is 3
Strength = (AC/300)*33% + (minAD/70)*33% + (maxAD/90)*33%
Potency = (CS/50)*50% + (CM/5)*50%
Endurance = (BC/170)*50% + (DR/12)*50%

Essentially, (260 HP) = (5.4 APR + 0.3 MovesPR) = (100 AC + 23.1 minAD + 30 maxAD) = (25 CS + 2.5 CM) = (85 BC + 6 DR)
This is very likely to be wrong, but it is my best estimate. Advice will be accepted.
Voomster Lvl 23 |HP 52 |AC 173% |AD 17-52 |ECC 20% |CM 3.0 |BC 61% |DR 2 Build 2/3221/0

Voomboy Retired at 41 and is reading The Fey of Feygard
Voom Retired at 46 and took up translating

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rijackson741
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Re: Guide to Picking a Build

Post by rijackson741 » Thu Jun 01, 2017 10:00 pm

Voom wrote:
Thu Jun 01, 2017 2:07 am
Those differences are all small enough that they seem like rounding errors. But maybe it is something else. I would like to know when the actual game applies rounding (before or after the sum of all factors that comprise each stat).
It doesn't apply rounding, as such. It uses integer arithmetic when calculating stats, so any time its stores a value in a variable it is truncated to the integer part. In my experience you can simulate that by truncating at every step.
Voom wrote:
Thu Jun 01, 2017 2:07 am
Could you share your excel file so I can see what the discrepancies might be?
Sure.
Voom wrote:
Thu Jun 01, 2017 2:07 am
For the radar chart, just scroll to the right and you will see a small box with those 5 attributes. Click on them to see the formulas. Generally, this visual is more of an arbitrary one because it compares min AD with max AD and AC; among other things. It is not made to be 100% relied upon and is just for the sake of having a visual. Here is the rundown:
Immunity = HP/260
Speed = (your APR/max APR)*90% + (your MovesPR/max MovesPR)*10% --> max APR is 6, max MovesPR is 3
Strength = (AC/300)*33% + (minAD/70)*33% + (maxAD/90)*33%
Potency = (CS/50)*50% + (CM/5)*50%
Endurance = (BC/170)*50% + (DR/12)*50%
OK. For endurance you might want to factor in the Evasion skill too, and for potency change CS/50 to ECC/30 (which would be numerically close when CS=40). I would think of Endurance in terms of HP though, and immunity in terms of Evasion/BC/DR.
Voom wrote:
Thu Jun 01, 2017 2:07 am
Essentially, (260 HP) = (5.4 APR + 0.3 MovesPR) = (100 AC + 23.1 minAD + 30 maxAD) = (25 CS + 2.5 CM) = (85 BC + 6 DR)
This is very likely to be wrong, but it is my best estimate. Advice will be accepted.
I don't know how to equate those things, so your formulas are as good as any :D
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Level: 64, XP: 4734786, HP: 196, AC: 246%, AD: 49-59, AP: 3, ECC: 25%, CM: 3, BC: 127%, DR: 2
Gold: 232355 | RoLS: 1, RoL: 1, GoW: 1
HH: 1, CS: 2, IF: 4, Ev: 3, Re: 2, WP:DA: 1, WP:1S: 1, AP:L: 1, FS:DW: 2, S:DW: 1
SR

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Voom
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Re: Guide to Picking a Build

Post by Voom » Thu Jun 08, 2017 1:20 am

@rijackson
I appreciate you sharing your file. I have poured over this excel sheet for hours. At this point I am convinced that the discrepancies are merely 'truncation' errors. I am inept at figuring those out, at least for now. I see no technical errors in the excel formulas whatsoever. ADmin and ADmax formulas are 99% similar, so I have no clue about the underlying difference b/w yours and mine... even calculating your build by hand your AD comes out as 50-58, not 51-59, nor 49-59. I know you are an accurate person, but could you double check your in-game build, please?

I agree that Evasion should be included. Those types of skills will be implemented later. Right now, only skills that have a permanent effect on the more obvious combat stats are shown.

About endurance and immunity, I see your point. Your logic is technically right. However, when I think of immunity I think of hospital stuff and therefore health stuff. Plus, immunity will eventually include the 3 immunity skills and rejuvenation. Endurance sounds more tough to me than immunity... idk

Those formulas are just based on what I think char stats look like in the average late game. But I will soon tweak it.

I will update soon.
Voomster Lvl 23 |HP 52 |AC 173% |AD 17-52 |ECC 20% |CM 3.0 |BC 61% |DR 2 Build 2/3221/0

Voomboy Retired at 41 and is reading The Fey of Feygard
Voom Retired at 46 and took up translating

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rijackson741
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Re: Guide to Picking a Build

Post by rijackson741 » Thu Jun 08, 2017 3:48 am

49-59 is correct. I think you are right that it is due to rounding. Without going though the code very carefully I don't think we will find the source of the discrepancy. Such a small difference will not affect the utility of the spreadsheet though.
Level: 64, XP: 4734786, HP: 196, AC: 246%, AD: 49-59, AP: 3, ECC: 25%, CM: 3, BC: 127%, DR: 2
Gold: 232355 | RoLS: 1, RoL: 1, GoW: 1
HH: 1, CS: 2, IF: 4, Ev: 3, Re: 2, WP:DA: 1, WP:1S: 1, AP:L: 1, FS:DW: 2, S:DW: 1
SR

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eldar healer
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Re: Guide to Picking a Build

Post by eldar healer » Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:55 am

Hi voom. It says on the first page of this post that I don't have the correct permission to view the attachments. Is this build creator just a tool for devs to mess around with?
I'd kind of like to experiment without having to start whole new savegames every time.
Player Name: james gold 19437
Lvl: 45 XP: 1649805 AP: 12/3 HP: 127 AC: 217% AD: 19-31 CHS:18 CM: 2.0 BC: 113% DR: 7
Skills: BS: 1 CS: 2 IF: 2 Reg: 2 MF: 1
WP:Da: 1 WP:1S: 1 AP:L: 1 AP:S: 2 FS:WS: 2

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rijackson741
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Re: Guide to Picking a Build

Post by rijackson741 » Mon Jun 26, 2017 12:18 pm

Are you logged in? You can only view attachments (and images) if you are logged into the forums.
Level: 64, XP: 4734786, HP: 196, AC: 246%, AD: 49-59, AP: 3, ECC: 25%, CM: 3, BC: 127%, DR: 2
Gold: 232355 | RoLS: 1, RoL: 1, GoW: 1
HH: 1, CS: 2, IF: 4, Ev: 3, Re: 2, WP:DA: 1, WP:1S: 1, AP:L: 1, FS:DW: 2, S:DW: 1
SR

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Duvalon
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Re: Guide to Picking a Build

Post by Duvalon » Tue Jun 27, 2017 12:51 am

I assume he is... he needs to be logged-in to post ;-)

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Voom
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Re: Guide to Picking a Build

Post by Voom » Tue Jun 27, 2017 6:06 pm

Small update to Build Creation tool:
-Format change.
-Balanced internal numbers for the radar chart.
Voomster Lvl 23 |HP 52 |AC 173% |AD 17-52 |ECC 20% |CM 3.0 |BC 61% |DR 2 Build 2/3221/0

Voomboy Retired at 41 and is reading The Fey of Feygard
Voom Retired at 46 and took up translating

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