Tweaking/Balancing Monster XP (grading on a curve)

[mattbernius]

First of all, thanks to all the developers for their work on the Trail! I really like the new areas... and I'm very excited about exploring them.

My feedback/idea is that I think the current XP system needs some balancing, and I wanted suggest implementing a logarithmic curve based on character level. In other words, the more advanced (in terms of levels) an adventurer gets, the less a given kill should be worth.

Background:
I just finished slogging through the lich/poison gland quest. After I completed it, I decided to return to BWM to hunt a pair of GoLF and work on a RoLD. In revisiting BWM I was struck by the fact that I quickly leveled from 36 to 37 while quickly taking down wild dogs, wolves, and the residents of the tomb with very little "threat" to my character.

And while I eventually got from 33 to almost level 36 doing the new quest -- along the way I died a LOT -- I was a bit surprised at how many of the far more dangerous monsters (with their various effects) in that new area ultimately didn't provide all that much more XP than the ones at the base of BWM.

Rather than simply upping how much the new monsters are worth (or dropping the value of the old monsters), I think it would be great to tie the XP value to the experience level of the character. In other words, as characters get more experience, the overall XP gained from a given type of monster deceases. A beginning character should get a higher amount of XP for surviving a fight with a wild dog than an advanced player. It seems like each area, and monster, was created with a general level range in mind. And it would only be after a player passes that range that the value of the kill starts the decrease.

Rather than a linear system, I think a logarithmic curve makes the most sense. That way, there's less incentive (other than hunting for legendary/extraordinary items) to level up through killing off tons of Gargoyle Trainers (as one example).

[DarkSavant13]

+1 totally awesome idea! I love the idea of level grading on a curve for mobs versus character. This would totally fix the problem that I've heard again and again of getting bored because either they have to grind mobs much lower level than them to get enough experience to make it to an area where mobs meet their level (ie. Lvls 20 through 30) and those of higher Lvl (100 and above) not finding a challenge.

[Pyrizzle]

Not all areas are created equal:
Some are good for collecting Gold, some are good for XP, and some don't drop potions at all.

[Sarumar]

IMO, current eps systems work well. When leveling you need to get more and more exp to level again. This amount of exp for next level needed grows soon to insane high.

Don't fix it if it already work

[Pyrizzle]

IMO, current eps systems work well. When leveling you need to get more and more exp to level again. This amount of exp for next level needed grows soon to insane high.

Don't fix it if it already work

+1 Once you get close to 30 it starts to take a long time to level, around 60 its a long grind. I have no idea how i managed to hit 100, i must have too much spare time.

[lady black]

I do not want to see experience points cut for a higher level character. Do you have any idea how long it already takes to accumulate almost 700,000 XP to level up just once?

[fiernaq]

I believe the suggestion was about scaling the xp from monsters to the lvl of the player attacking. Yes, this would mean that a high lvl player attacking a very low lvl monster wouldn't get much xp at all. However, a high lvl player attacking a high lvl monster would actually be able to earn more xp than they do currently because the base values for those monsters would be raised. I'm not sure how many lvl 200 equivalent monsters we have in the game yet so you may not see any benefit to doing this until those kinds of monsters get implemented but the goal is that anyone attacking a monster roughly their lvl equivalent should get close to the standard amount of xp while attacking an easy monster should give them less and attacking a difficult monster should give them more.

[Sarumar]

I do not want to see experience points cut for a higher level character. Do you have any idea how long it already takes to accumulate almost 700,000 XP to level up just once?

+1.... I know, it is insane amound of time

[lady black]

I have never seen an exam graded on a log curve, and believe any professor attempting to implement such a system would be lynched. "Hmm, Joe got 100 on the exam. So on a log curve that gives him a 10. Too bad, he was doing so well."

Why should I get fewer XP for killing the same monster than you get, just beause my character has been playing longer and has gotten stronger. I see no reason why I should be penalized for being strong at a high level. If the new monsters give the same XP as those in the Iqhan cave, I would never get the full XP, even the first time I killed them. And I'd better make sure I don't bump into any ants or wasps out in the woods--I'll probably lose 100 XP for killing something so low level.

As Sarumar said, (almost): if it ain't broke, don't fix it! It "ain't" a tenth as "broke" now as it would be after you "fix" it!

[fiernaq]

The idea is that xp isn't just a number that you gain, the full word is actually "experience" and as you go through life getting more experienced, things that used to be difficult aren't as much so anymore. Easy example: potty training. Back when you were just a wee child, using the bathroom was a challenging and daunting task which you had to learn how to do. As time has progressed, you probably don't even think about it anymore. It's just something you do without actually learning anything new.

Apply this to monsters. Yes, the first 1000 times you kill an ant you may be learning from it but I'd be willing to be you learned less the 1000th time than you did the 1st time. In other words, you gain less experience from killing a monster that you learned how to kill a year ago and by now could kill in your sleep.

There are two problems with moving to a system like this:

1) AT doesn't currently have "levels" for monsters (that I can tell) so the standard "compare levels" method for scaling xp won't work. Of course it should be fairly simple to add a kill counter and just scale the xp on the number of kills but that runs into problems of it's own so I would definitely recommend some kind of "monster level" before switching to a scaling xp system.

2) AT doesn't currently have many insanely difficult monsters... in fact, you can currently finish the game around level 30ish if you so chose. Now, you could either make the monsters you fight grow more powerful the higher level you are (which would require a completely new backend system and I don't recommend it for AT) or you could just start adding more difficult monsters into current locations. These would be monsters that no low level player would be able to kill but that someone like Sarumar with his 200 odd levels would be able to face on a mostly equal footing. This would accomplish 2 things: stop the grindfest and give players a challenge. Instead of swooping through the Iquan caves killing everything in sight by poking them with a pointy stick you can now face off against one opponent for a 3 minute long fight that forces you to work for your rewards and then gives you 100k xp per kill. Do note, however, that no low level player should be able to beat these monsters or you will have just handed them some XP on a silver platter. Make the fight tough. Make it require the 50 skill points a lvl 200 player has.