Balancing barehanded fighting

[Sarumar]

In 0.6.11 barehanded fighting is quite overpovered. IMO something need to do. I suggest something like this:
-New skill, barehanded fighting or martial arts.
-Without any point of skill damage is heavily desreased like dam * 0,5
-In first point of skill there are no prequisites = barehanded fighting damage * 0,65
-In second point of skill there are some easy preguisities like hard hit and evasion 1 = barehanded fighting damage *0,80
-For the third point of skill (max level) some harder
prequisities = barehanded damage *0,95

Any opinions ?

[Mino]

In 0.6.11 barehanded fighting is quite overpovered. IMO something need to do. I suggest something like this:
-New skill, barehanded fighting or martial arts.
-Without any point of skill damage is heavily desreased like dam * 0,5
-In first point of skill there are no prequisites = barehanded fighting damage * 0,65
-In second point of skill there are some easy preguisities like hard hit and evasion 1 = barehanded fighting damage *0,80
-For the third point of skill (max level) some harder
prequisities = barehanded damage *0,95

Any opinions ?

I think its only overpowered for powerful characters. When you start out, its mostly helpful because of the lower attack cost, but the damage done isn't that much. I think for people starting out, only doing half damage is too little, especially when full damage isn't that much to begin with.

And the other question is, if you're wearing gloves, does that really count as barehanded anymore? Your hands are more protected, so gloves would have to be figured in too.

Maybe to make the game not too difficult for beginners, you could have an effect "Bruised Knuckles", that reduces AD to *0.75 (or more or less depending on how far you want to go), and anytime you attack a monster without a weapon, there is a 20% chance of getting it, and it lasts for 3-5 rounds.
But if you equip gloves, the chance goes down to 15% (or even 10%) since your hands are more protected.

That way, newer players still have a viable low attack cost option, but it encourages them to get a weapon, or at least some gloves.

[fiernaq]

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo





On a more serious note, yes, I do think that barehanded fighting is overpowered compared to the alternatives. Why do you think I use it?

[Sarumar]

Thanks Mino, nice ideas... but IMO it is overpowered, I just start new build (sided with Lord Geomyr, newer touched illegal stuff like bonemeal). Going in barehandet and just got Dark protecktor in level 25....

[fiernaq]

I think what Mino is talking about is the lvl 1-5 range. With an AD of 1 and very low AC you almost have to start out barehanded in order to be able to kill anything. After you gain some AD though then yes, barehanded does become more powerful.

[buddyCasino]

True! Weapons got weaker by reducing the power of critical hits, barehanded fights need to be adjusted accordingly.

[Sarumar]

I think what Mino is talking about is the lvl 1-5 range. With an AD of 1 and very low AC you almost have to start out barehanded in order to be able to kill anything. After you gain some AD though then yes, barehanded does become more powerful.

Hmm.... How about this, without martial art skill your damage done in barehanded is AD*0,5 +1, etc ?

[Antison]

I have never not used a weapon, but I know barehanded fighting is over powered.
Just that fact you can get 5 attacks per combat round makes it over powered.
We have read ideas in other threads about bumping up the AP from 2 to 3 or more, which I am in favor of.

[Sarumar]

I have never not used a weapon, but I know barehanded fighting is over powered.
Just that fact you can get 5 attacks per combat round makes it over powered.
We have read ideas in other threads about bumping up the AP from 2 to 3 or more, which I am in favor of.

Hmm... 6-7 attack per combat round + cleave 2 = + 3 attack more

[Mino]

I have never not used a weapon, but I know barehanded fighting is over powered.
Just that fact you can get 5 attacks per combat round makes it over powered.
We have read ideas in other threads about bumping up the AP from 2 to 3 or more, which I am in favor of.

The AP is already 3, its only 2 if you get the Jewel of Fallhaven, which a beginner can't afford right away, and the JoF is part of what makes it more powerful.

fiernaq is right, I was mostly talking about the level 1-5 range, where you can either use that club you start with or barehanded, and the club has too high an attack cost for not much more AC or AD to make it worth it. So starting off, you only get 3 attacks per turn, your base damage isn't that high, and it doesn't add anything to your AC. And it takes a while at the beginning to get enough gold for the JoF - I know because I started a new build and had to grind out a lot of meat and boots (the drop on those seemed to be lower than before), and still buy a couple rings to increase my AC and/or AD along the way.

Cleave doesn't really factor in for beginners either because the earliest you could get it is level 12, and that's if you pass up other skills like Increased Fortitude and Regeneration.