Xul'viir

Unstructured ideas, requests and suggestions for the development of the game.
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hero
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Xul'viir

Post by hero » Mon Jul 29, 2013 5:50 pm

New to the board and I don't want to give anything away, so I'm putting this whole thing in spoiler so I don't ruin it for anyone. Also, I don't know if this should go under bugs, but I think it's a bug, so that's where I thought it was most appropriate to put it.
It's just my opinion, but I think the Xul'viir is not near strong enough for what it takes to get it. It's the most difficult weapon that is not a legendary item to get and it takes a huge amount of resources (3 crystals) to have repaired. Here is my breakdown of why and what I think needs to be done to fix this:

My base stats with no weapon are: 175% / 31-44 / +20 / 64%. I wear the Jewel of Fallhaven and have 2 points in combat speed, giving me 12AP with -1 on attack. If you break down what I get out of Xul'viir vs DOSP (which I got at level 25 - 30) or Balanced Steel Sword (which if I remember correctly you can buy for like 1000gold?) you get this below:

Xul'viir equipped: 207% / 35-59 / 23*2.0 / 72% - 6AP (5AP with JoF)
Balanced Sword: 207% / 34-51 / 20*0 / 64% - 4AP (3AP w JoF)
DOSP equipped: 195% / 32-46 / 40 * 3.0 / 64% - 4AP (3AP w JoF)

Your potential damage per round is:

Xul'viir: 2 hits x 35-59 = 70-108 total damage.
Balanced Sword: 4 hits x 34-51 = 136-204 total damage
DOSP: 4 hits x 32-46 = 128-184 total damage.

Before you nail me on the Bleeding Wound and Dazed adding usefulness, just remember you only have a 1/10 and approx. 1/8 chance of those going into effect, which is 4 - 5 rounds respectively, which is less time than it takes for me to kill 95% of the foes in the entire game. The additional 12% block chance is no where near enough to make up for it either, even when included with the Bleeding Wound and Dazed. And the crits, in my opinion, are heavily negated by the fact that most of the superior monsters in the game are immune to crits and the fact that the DOSP is a MUCH better option if you're going to rely on that. Not to mention that neither the DOSP or the Balanced Sword take much less effort to get (if you're past level 30ish) and beating that damn Hira'zinn at level 43 was quite the feat. All that AND I had to give up three crystals. So, I've identified the problem, so this is how I would recommend you solve it (because I demand of my employees if they're going to identify a problem, they have to provide a solution):

Option 1: Reduce the AP to 5. This would provide three strikes with it, giving a slightly more balanced "total damage" value to the other two, without making the weapon so superior that it unbalances the game.

Option 2: I don't know if this is possible, but increase the crit multiplier to 3.0 and make it the only weapon in the game that even monsters that are immune to crits are not immune to the crits of the Xul'viir. It makes sense with the storyline (with this weapon being a bad, bad thing), it still wouldn't make it unbalanced, given the fact that you only get two attacks per round. And I honestly think if you did that, most people STILL wouldn't use it as a day to day weapon, but more of a situational weapon where you would equip it against tougher opponents that are crit immune with other weapons.
I'm sure there are better options and I would love to hear them, but I really think the weapon is far too weak. I'll be interested to hear all of your responses!

Sorry if I did something wrong? I think this is my 3rd post ever on the board.

Hero / Tyson

ncer
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Re: Xul'viir

Post by ncer » Mon Jul 29, 2013 6:11 pm

This is not a bug, I would expect this topic to be moved.

As for your points:
I believe the designer of the weapon wanted to capture flavor. The weapon being extremely strong might not have been the goal. Also imagine the source, 2 npc's saying it's very evil, they might just not have seen anything stronger.

That said it does feel a little weak, maybe the chance of getting the effects could be increased?
Lvl: 195, XP: 135178554, Gold: 1004501
HP: 88 AC: 345%, AD: 109-120, AP: 5, ECC: 15%, CM: 0, BC: 222%, DR: 6
RoLS: 2, ElyR: 1, RoL: 1, ChaR: 1, GoLF: 1, ShaF: 1, SRoV: 1, VSH: 2, WMC: 0, GoW: 0

hero
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Re: Xul'viir

Post by hero » Mon Jul 29, 2013 6:17 pm

No problem if it gets moved. I'm a little new to this place.
I can understand if the designer didn't want it to be too strong, but if that's the case, remove the need to provide the crystals, or give the option of undoing it. They're just too valuable to put into a weapon with very little use. I still think the AP is the real problem. Obviously this is just my opinion, but I think it's a damn good one. :)

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sorrow
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Re: Xul'viir

Post by sorrow » Mon Jul 29, 2013 6:27 pm

All of you have me to thank on this on. When this weapon was introduced into the alpha testing this weapon was way overpowered and it unbalanced the game so we (the creators) of the game nerf it big time. You combined all the 2h Prof. And it becomes strong. Here's the original stats for the xul'viir:
AP:5
AC:32
AD:4-15
ECC multiplier: 2.0
BC:12
HP:-2
25% chance of bleeding wounds
45% chance of daze.


As it stands there the weapon was powerful but when you add the Prof. And the fighting style skills the weapon became over powering that's why that stats of this weapon is what it is now.

Sorrow
Lvl:80 XP:9214038 Gold:1mil Hp:243 AC:301 Ad:28-49 Ch:21 Cm:2.0 Ecc:15 BC:148 Dr:3

skills:
WA:2. HH:2. CS:2. TH:2 QL:2 IF:2 REG:2 MF:5 DBS:1 2HSP:1 LAP:2 HAP:1 SREG:1
L/E
CHAR:1 ROLS:1 ELYR:1 GOLF:1 SHAF: 1

Thystonius
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Re: Xul'viir

Post by Thystonius » Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:10 pm

These problems are not going to be solved by making 2h weapons more powerful, only by changing the game mechanics, which means AD on weapons being a % of your AD (base) instead of adding damage to your base AD.

On another note, I noticed that for destroying the sword instead of crepairing it, you get nothing but some xp. Which I think is quite silly. For the Dark Protector, you get 5% less affect chance skill. For the Marrowtaint, you can upgrade certain items in Remgard. For destroying the Xul'viir, which is imho the same category of evil items, there should be something like maybe level 2 in Dark Protection of the Shadow...
Lvl 74|XP 7,280,442|€ 364,324|2013.08.27
HP 229|AC 238%|AD 46-55|AP 3|ECC 25%|CM 3.0|BC 140%|DR 10|SR
RoLS 2|ElyR 1|RoL 0|ChaR 0|GoLF 1|ShaF 1|SRoV 0|VSH 0|WMC 0|GoW 0
WA 1|HH 1|Clv 1|BS 5|CS 2|CE 1|IF 5|Reg 1|DPS 1|DP 1|SP 2|LAP 1

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Antison
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Re: Xul'viir

Post by Antison » Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:14 pm

Thystonius wrote: On another note, I noticed that for destroying the sword instead of crepairing it, you get nothing but some xp. Which I think is quite silly. For the Dark Protector, you get 5% less affect chance skill. For the Marrowtaint, you can upgrade certain items in Remgard. For destroying the Xul'viir, which is imho the same category of evil items, there should be something like maybe level 2 in Dark Protection of the Shadow...
+1 This is an outstanding point and I couldn't agree more.

Code: Select all

Lv  AP   HP  AC  AD    BC DR CHS CM ECC
134 3/12 215 285 65-75 201 9
58  4/14 131 241 30-43 186 3
52  3/12 150 261 33-42 81  4 59  3.0 29
52  4/12 163 334 30-47 77  3
49  3/12 99  347 40-46 171 1
49  6/12 131 263 35-80 107 3
48  2/12 121 267 34-43 103 5

Sarumar
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Re: Xul'viir

Post by Sarumar » Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:40 pm

IMO Xul'viir is nerfed too much. I like to see its status effect chances to be at least 25%
Best things about heavy weapons are high bace damage. There are lots of monsters with pretty high DR...

Btw:
-Balanced steel sword*2, 6 skillpoits and JoF = AP 3, AC 154%, AD 6-14
-Xul'viir, 6 skillpoints and Necklace of the protector = AP 6, AC 61%, AD 8-31, ICC 6%, CM 2.0, BC 23%, HP +3, DR +2, 2* status condititions

.. and there are some other intresting weapons like Gutsplitter, Brutal club, Blade of the defiler,

----------------combined posts-------------------------------------
Antison wrote:
Thystonius wrote: On another note, I noticed that for destroying the sword instead of crepairing it, you get nothing but some xp. Which I think is quite silly. For the Dark Protector, you get 5% less affect chance skill. For the Marrowtaint, you can upgrade certain items in Remgard. For destroying the Xul'viir, which is imho the same category of evil items, there should be something like maybe level 2 in Dark Protection of the Shadow...
+1 This is an outstanding point and I couldn't agree more.

-1 You need pay really high price if you want this sword.
Sarumar
..dansing left foot polka with Hirathil

Lvl 313|XP 559721474|Gold 7965188|AP 3/12|AC 516|AD 161-175|ECC 48|CM 6|BC 311|HP 591|DR 2|RoLS 3|RoL 2|ElyR 2|ChaR 45|GoLF 3|ShaF 9|SRoV 28|VSH 13|GoW 1|WMC 1

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sorrow
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Re: Xul'viir

Post by sorrow » Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:42 pm

Ya but I'm just giving reason as to why the dev team nerfed the xul'viir but I agree they went to far.

Sorrow
Lvl:80 XP:9214038 Gold:1mil Hp:243 AC:301 Ad:28-49 Ch:21 Cm:2.0 Ecc:15 BC:148 Dr:3

skills:
WA:2. HH:2. CS:2. TH:2 QL:2 IF:2 REG:2 MF:5 DBS:1 2HSP:1 LAP:2 HAP:1 SREG:1
L/E
CHAR:1 ROLS:1 ELYR:1 GOLF:1 SHAF: 1

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Antison
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Re: Xul'viir

Post by Antison » Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:44 pm

Sarumar wrote:
Antison wrote:
Thystonius wrote: On another note, I noticed that for destroying the sword instead of crepairing it, you get nothing but some xp. Which I think is quite silly. For the Dark Protector, you get 5% less affect chance skill. For the Marrowtaint, you can upgrade certain items in Remgard. For destroying the Xul'viir, which is imho the same category of evil items, there should be something like maybe level 2 in Dark Protection of the Shadow...
+1 This is an outstanding point and I couldn't agree more.

-1 You need pay really high price if you want this sword.
Sarumar,
We are talking about being rewarded for destroying it past the XP gained.

Code: Select all

Lv  AP   HP  AC  AD    BC DR CHS CM ECC
134 3/12 215 285 65-75 201 9
58  4/14 131 241 30-43 186 3
52  3/12 150 261 33-42 81  4 59  3.0 29
52  4/12 163 334 30-47 77  3
49  3/12 99  347 40-46 171 1
49  6/12 131 263 35-80 107 3
48  2/12 121 267 34-43 103 5

Sarumar
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Re: Xul'viir

Post by Sarumar » Mon Jul 29, 2013 10:00 pm

Why there should be a reward :?:
Sarumar
..dansing left foot polka with Hirathil

Lvl 313|XP 559721474|Gold 7965188|AP 3/12|AC 516|AD 161-175|ECC 48|CM 6|BC 311|HP 591|DR 2|RoLS 3|RoL 2|ElyR 2|ChaR 45|GoLF 3|ShaF 9|SRoV 28|VSH 13|GoW 1|WMC 1

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