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Female character choice??

Unstructured ideas, requests and suggestions for the development of the game.
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mspowerplant
Posts: 234
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android_version: 4.1
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Re: Female character choice??

Post by mspowerplant » Tue Feb 28, 2017 9:13 pm

Zukero wrote:Alright, I've given it some more brain juice. And this is post #1234 from yours truly.

I could imagine adding a new language, "english for girls". Or rather, a whole new set of languages, "french for girls", "russian for girls"...
If the player plays a girl, the translation system will look for the the feminine version of the translation first, fallback to the general translation if none is found, fallback to feminine english if none is found, and finally fallback to raw english.
American girls will also enjoy what people around the world has been enjoying for years in AT: untranslated strings that look awkward.
Hopefully, we'll also gather a whole army of feminist translator that'll make sure girls get it their way too, with proper grammar! (As a father of two girls, I'd love to see them play AT the girls' way.)

I'll have to check with the weblate guy if that would be easily supported there too.
If it can be done and its looking like quite a big task.
I would be more than happy to write the English for girls.
Let's face it I started the nightmare rolling again for you so it would be the least I could do :D

Current build: LVL 80 EXP 9232014 HP253 GOLD 268714
AC 270% AD 48-52 BC 150%

And some other stuff lol
27/12/2013 :D

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Lady Drager
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Re: Female character choice??

Post by Lady Drager » Tue Feb 28, 2017 10:29 pm

:D Yes! But its not up to me. :lol:
Temporarily off Duty
Testing new release. Found this! Found that! What's next? :shock: Where's that?!?

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Nut
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Re: Female character choice??

Post by Nut » Tue Feb 28, 2017 11:50 pm

rijackson741 wrote:The English could be fixed to be gender neutral everywhere, although that would probably be a lot of work.
Do you really think there are many changes? Most of the time, he/she is called "kid", and I don't recall many gender specific texts. E.g. "boy" is only about 5 times to be changed. I think this could be done in English with moderate effort. Likewise in German.
Of course every change does concern the translations in weblate, just like typos.
Zukero wrote:As an example, "You are nice" translates to "Tu es gentil" or "Tu es gentille" in French, depending on whether "you" is a boy or a girl.
This of course is more work, but maybe not too much. I tried to find gender specific phrases and didn't find as many as I feared at first. But maybe my French is too bad for such task :D

Anyway, your solution to add another language (female French) and have 2 fallbacks (male French + English) is clever.
It might be just a bit difficult for female-French translators to distinguish between new untranslated texts and old gender-neutral text, because both are missing.
Nut
_____
Nut: Lvl 61, HP 103, AC 273%, AD 32-41, CHS 67, BC 159% WA 3, Do 5, BS MC 1, CS 2, IF 1, Reg 1, WP 1, S 1, AP L 1, RoLS
Anwyn: Lvl 52, HP 126, AC 221%, AD 28-36, CHS 27, BC 119% Do 4, CS 2, IF 3, Ev 2, Reg 1, Ta 1, RoLS

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mspowerplant
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Re: Female character choice??

Post by mspowerplant » Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:41 am

Lady Drager wrote::D Yes! But its not up to me. :lol:
See us ladies have spoken.. Oh pretty pretty please :lol:

Wait is there seriously only two of us? :?

Current build: LVL 80 EXP 9232014 HP253 GOLD 268714
AC 270% AD 48-52 BC 150%

And some other stuff lol
27/12/2013 :D

Capeditiea
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Re: Female character choice??

Post by Capeditiea » Wed Mar 01, 2017 11:00 am

i would love to have a girl character. :3 same name as my current, i wouldn't even mind earning RoLS all over again. :3
Player Name: Capeditiea
Lvl: 48 HP: 116 AC: 269% AD: 21-29 CHS: 48 CM: 3.0 BC: 167% DR: 3
i am spoiler happy now that i have figured it out. :3
caught up. have 1 RoLS. now to grind like crazy.
:D

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Zukero
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Re: Female character choice??

Post by Zukero » Wed Mar 01, 2017 11:04 am

Well, I don't need to be convinced of the utility or the desirability of this feature. I already am. Actually, I always was.
It just has so many implications that I'll take my time to review all technical options, and make sure it's all possible before starting to code.

IMHO, the main hurdle left is dealing with weblate. How can this be properly added to the game while still providing the best tools we can buy for free for our volunteer task force of translators.

Ideally, all sentences would show two versions for english, and two for localized.
The second version of each allow to provide an alternative for when the player has a female character.
You have four different cases:
- Two versions for english, yet only one for French ("It's his cat" and "It's her cat" both translate to "C'est son chat")
- The contrary ("You are nice" gives "Tu es gentil" or "Tu es gentille")
- Only one for each ("Hi, I'm Guthbered" gives "Salut, je m'appelle Guthbered")
- Both for each ("<playername> is nice to give me his sword" or "<playername> is nice to give me her sword" gives "<playername> est gentil de me donner son épée" or "<playername> est gentille de me donner son épée").

Some languages may not even need the alternatives. Gender of a single char is generally easy to handle, as we only need to have one or two versions of each sentence.
I'm glad we don't play a team of varying size like in Baldur's Gate or Lands of Lore or Dungeon Master. These can give real nightmare as the number and the type of cases varies greatly with the target language (english and french simply have singular or plural; arabic have singular, dual or plural; russian and most slavic languages are a nightmare, and combining it all is hell on earth).
Lvl: 78, XP: 8622632, Gold: 271542, RoLS: 1, ElyR: -, RoL: -, ChaR: 1, GoLF: 1, ShaF: 1, SRoV: 1, VSH: 1, WMC: 1, GoW: 1
HP: 71, AC: 301%, AD: 38-47, AP: 3, ECC: 50%, CM: 3.75, BC: 101%, DR: 2

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rijackson741
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Re: Female character choice??

Post by rijackson741 » Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:55 pm

Nut wrote:
rijackson741 wrote:The English could be fixed to be gender neutral everywhere, although that would probably be a lot of work.
Do you really think there are many changes? Most of the time, he/she is called "kid", and I don't recall many gender specific texts. E.g. "boy" is only about 5 times to be changed.
I don't know how many changes are needed, but over 6000 strings would need to be checked. It's a fair amount of work just to do that. I agree that the number of changes needed would probably not be that great though.
Level: 64, XP: 4734786, HP: 196, AC: 246%, AD: 49-59, AP: 3, ECC: 25%, CM: 3, BC: 127%, DR: 2
Gold: 232355 | RoLS: 1, RoL: 1, GoW: 1
HH: 1, CS: 2, IF: 4, Ev: 3, Re: 2, WP:DA: 1, WP:1S: 1, AP:L: 1, FS:DW: 2, S:DW: 1
SR

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twirlimp
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Re: Female character choice??

Post by twirlimp » Wed Mar 01, 2017 3:42 pm

rijackson741 wrote:
Nut wrote:
rijackson741 wrote:The English could be fixed to be gender neutral everywhere, although that would probably be a lot of work.
Do you really think there are many changes? Most of the time, he/she is called "kid", and I don't recall many gender specific texts. E.g. "boy" is only about 5 times to be changed.
I don't know how many changes are needed, but over 6000 strings would need to be checked. It's a fair amount of work just to do that. I agree that the number of changes needed would probably not be that great though.
Phew that's a long of strings.

Even at 5 seconds per string that's about 8.5 hours.
ideas plox

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rijackson741
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Re: Female character choice??

Post by rijackson741 » Wed Mar 01, 2017 11:37 pm

twirlimp wrote:Even at 5 seconds per string that's about 8.5 hours.
I suspect that's the reason that translations are complete in only two languages :(
Level: 64, XP: 4734786, HP: 196, AC: 246%, AD: 49-59, AP: 3, ECC: 25%, CM: 3, BC: 127%, DR: 2
Gold: 232355 | RoLS: 1, RoL: 1, GoW: 1
HH: 1, CS: 2, IF: 4, Ev: 3, Re: 2, WP:DA: 1, WP:1S: 1, AP:L: 1, FS:DW: 2, S:DW: 1
SR

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Duvalon
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Re: Female character choice??

Post by Duvalon » Thu Mar 02, 2017 3:03 am

Yeah. That and I'm a very slow translator :lol: I should be done by now. Only 1700 to go...

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