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Weapon- & armour categorization

Discussions of the development process of the game.
Sarumar
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Re: Weapon- & armour categorization

Post by Sarumar »

Stoodge wrote:i would love to see a different skill/specialisation system utalised for these weapon and armour 'upgrades' perhaps every 5 levels you earn a point for a weapon proficiency skill tree.
there are already more skills to choose from than points are available for content. for example you only earn 10 skill points by level 40.
before the update i replayed through almost all quest/dungeon bosses content and found i had only reached level 24. this equates to only 6 skill points.
splitting skills between those available and weapon proficiency would drag the game out and make it painful to create a desired build to be effective at the current levels.

not too sure if this makes sense but hopefully people can follow what im trying to say.
I can follow you. +1 I like this idea
Stoodge wrote:
i would also like to see weapon class effects.
using a skeleton as an example
maces and other smashing weapons should have an extra effect against destroying bones
swords and piercing/slashing weapons should have a negative effect as they dont really have anything to cut/slice/pierce

enchanted weapons for demons etc.

even mobs that are immune to attacks from particular weapon types or only a special unique weapon will cause any damage
ie magical flame sword vs ice elemental

this would mean that particular builds would be affective in some areas and find a challenge in others. yes you can always switch weapon sets to get through easily but if you are not proficient in use of that weapon then there wont be a huge benifit.

just my 2 cents
And +1 to this one too
Sarumar
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Dead Squirrel
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Re: Weapon- & armour categorization

Post by Dead Squirrel »

I think there have been some very good ideas expressed here but as I've been reading them it brings to mind a discussion from last year about implementing character classes. If I remember correctly, the general consensus was against it. But, I think for the ideas expressed here to be effective, it may be necessary. I'm thinking from the perspective of a person who has just discovered this game. For a person who has played this game several times, part of the fun is to try different builds and techniques for conquering challenges you have already faced. However, if I'm playing the game for the first time, I lack the vision necessary to combine skills effectively. This is why I believe that the implementation of character classes, while limiting some of the skills and weapons that would be available to me, would help to enable me to build a character that would be effective in the challenges ahead. I can then play the game as a different class of character and have a new set of challenges selecting skill and weapon combinations. Basically, it would provide a framework on which to build your character whether you are a novice or have been overcome by the power of the Shadow.
To put this in a nutshell, I think that adding too much complexity to the game may make it more frustrating for the inexperienced, and therefore, less appealing.

Keep in mind though, you'll want to keep a couple tricks up your sleeve for the sequel. ;)
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Re: Weapon- & armour categorization

Post by lady black »

It seems to me that locking into one class before you know anything about what types of challenges and monsters lie ahead would end up causing more frustration than not having classes would. I foresee a bunch of abandoned savegames where the newish player has decided he chose the wrong class and needed to start over to get anywhere. Especially since he has no idea what each class entails and will be locking him into and locking him out of.

I agree that the weapon specialization proficiencies would need to be separate from the skills we have now, unless skill points are awarded much more often. I do not support the weapon class effects, as I feel they would make things too complicated. Why not just swing at skeletons with the flat of your sword?
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Re: Weapon- & armour categorization

Post by DarkSavant13 »

If you're worried about abandoned saves,I can pretty much guarantee that most people new to the game abandon their first save as they learn more about the game, and maybe a few more. This goes to show that the game needs.some way to give more info to the player either before playing or during the game.

My point is, that right now, players abandoning their saves is not something you need to worry about.
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Re: Weapon- & armour categorization

Post by insink71 »

Ahh I will suggest categorization like other old rpg's:
Weaponry:
Edged weapons - includes knives swords, axes, etc
Blunt Weaponry - includes hammers, clubs, flails, etc
Two handed weapons - includes greatswords or two edged or blunt [additional training needed for this skill]

Kind of where classes creep back.. the warriors of old had more skill training pts available for two-handed combat; also, staff, staves, etc were for the spellcasters [wizards or sorcerors]. I know thats a direction you don't want to take though.

Then there are future considerations of ranged and/or thrown weaponry. If something like edged or blunt weapon skill is introduced it would be a major change. Anytime skills are changed its pretty much major. At some point then in the future you might want to give a skill pt more oft than 4 trains.

Like your thinking on armor [inc caps, shields, etc]; base it on material it was manufactured from.
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Re: Weapon- & armour categorization

Post by kingrhino »

what if there were, in a way, classes but then there weren't classes. For example there are warrior, mage, thief skills and what not but there are no specific classes. So you could build yourself the way you want. like a character with warrior/ sword specialization that also has the skills of a magician or something.
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Re: Weapon- & armour categorization

Post by DarkSavant13 »

kingrhino wrote:what if there were, in a way, classes but then there weren't classes. For example there are warrior, mage, thief skills and what not but there are no specific classes. So you could build yourself the way you want. like a character with warrior/ sword specialization that also has the skills of a magician or something.
I think that is the way they are going right now for the game. I really like this. Oskar has said that he didn't want defined character classes for the game, that your choices throughout the game should define who you are. Choices of class-like skills and equipment would add a lot to that and help a person define their character more in line with the type of "class" they like to play, without limiting them. This way, you could play virtually any type of "class" you could think of. ;)
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Re: Weapon- & armour categorization

Post by lady black »

DarkSavant13 wrote:
kingrhino wrote:what if there were, in a way, classes but then there weren't classes. For example there are warrior, mage, thief skills and what not but there are no specific classes. So you could build yourself the way you want. like a character with warrior/ sword specialization that also has the skills of a magician or something.
I think that is the way they are going right now for the game. I really like this. Oskar has said that he didn't want defined character classes for the game, that your choices throughout the game should define who you are. Choices of class-like skills and equipment would add a lot to that and help a person define their character more in line with the type of "class" they like to play, without limiting them. This way, you could play virtually any type of "class" you could think of. ;)
+100
I said, or tried to, essentially the same thing several times over the life of this thread. I do not want to see my character tied into a specific set of limits that I could not foresee when I was forced to pick a "class" for him.
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Xero
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Re: Weapon- & armour categorization

Post by Xero »

I read alot of good stuff here.
here is my idea..and this may be too complicated as my suggestions tend to be.
I think the weapons should be categorized as such:
-1 handed:
Blunt
Slashing
Piercing
-2 handed:
Blunt
Slashing
Piercing
-Unarmed:
Blunt: knuckles
Slashing: katar
Piercing: claw
Weapon skill ups-
Weapon skill levels up with repeated use of weapons in qualifying categories.
Level up of a weapon skill accesses a skill tree for any category the weapon belongs
(for example: you are using a spear. Your experience on both piercing and two handed increase. You decide to switch to dagger. Your experience in piercing continues increasing while your one handed and two handed is behind on exp. You leveled your piercing up. The piercing tree opens similarly like a level up. When you access the tree for piercing, there are 4 branches, two handed peirce skills, one handed pierce skills unarmed pierce skills and general pierce skills. You have leveled pierce before leveling one handed, two handed, or unarmed. Therefore, you may only distribute a skill point to a general passive skill for piercing weapons only.
Skill requirement for a skill may look like: impale - requires lvl 3 pierce & lvl 2 two handed weapon. And of course you wouldn't even get the bonus for the skill point unless you were actually equipped with a two handed piercing weapon.
Also I agree that enemies should have a resistance to a category and weak to another. a piercing weapon is not as effective against a skeleton as a blunt weapon.
likewise I believe the armor should use a similar system.
-Cloth/no armor:
Head
Chest
Legs
Boots
Arms
Gloves
-Leather/light armor:
Head
Chest
Legs
Boots
Arms
Gloves
-Chain/medium armor:
Head
Chest
Legs
Boots
Arms
Gloves
-Plate mail/ heavy armor:
Head
Chest
Legs
Boots
Arms
Gloves
just like with weapons, your experience increases when wearing armor or no armor.
Experience increases for each piece of armor under the category it falls under.
Experience increases when being attacked.
When your armor skill level increases, a skill menu opens like when a character levels. the skill tree will be for the appropriate corresponding armor class that leveled.
Example of how experience gain would work.
You are wearing a plate mail helmet, a chainmail chest, chainmail legs,
leather boots and no gloves.
You are being attacked by a beetle each time the beetle attacks, you receive 2 xp per piece of equipment or lack of.
The beetle attacks you 3 times in a round
You receive 2 xp per attack for heavy armor = 6
You receive 4 xp per attack for medium armor = 12
You receive 2 xp per attack for leather armor = 6
And you receive 2 xp per attack for no armor = 6
I liked the ideas others suggested and added to them.
This would further character customization and I love character customization.
With this in place, you can be a monk or knight or thief, or barbarian..without the restrictions of choosing a class. And its new player friendly since they can switch gear any time. Choose your own path and increase the replay value even more.
Tell me what you think,
X
Sarumar
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Re: Weapon- & armour categorization

Post by Sarumar »

Some nice ideas here Xero,

Im fan of methods where you dont gain exp when you kill something, but instead you become better in skills which ones you are using. Just like in the old RuneQuest rpg system....
Sarumar
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