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Github Fork: Ranged Weapons, Monsters follow player and/or flee.

Discussions of the development process of the game.
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Zukero
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Re: Github Fork: Ranged Weapons, Monsters follow player and/or flee.

Post by Zukero » Tue Feb 14, 2017 5:54 pm

Rijackson741 is right, but I'd consider taking the move cost into account when computing how many tiles you can move upon a flee before mobs can move again. That'd be consistent with the way the NPCs move (dung flies anyone ?).
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Re: Github Fork: Ranged Weapons, Monsters follow player and/or flee.

Post by Voom » Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:43 am

rijackson741 wrote:Yes, sure you can move again. But where to? You would have to flee to another map, whereas on many maps there are currently safe spots, and even more semi-safe spots where a monster can get next to you, but cannot move onto your square. If you allow the monsters to chase you anywhere on a map the whole game would be harder, and fleeing and Evasion would be much less useful.
Yes, sure you can move again. But where to? You would have to flee to another map, whereas on many maps there are currently safe spots, and even more semi-safe spots where a monster can get next to you, but cannot move onto your square. If you allow the monsters to chase you anywhere on a map the whole game would be harder, and fleeing and Evasion would be much less useful. [/quote]
Ok, I concur.
rijackson741 wrote:If you reset the aggression after a successful flee a player could get 4 levels of Evasion, so fleeing is always successful. So stand as far away from a monster as possible and shoot it as many times as you can until it reaches you. Then flee. It stops chasing you, so you move as far away as possible again, and repeat. For each one round it got to hit you, you would get multiple rounds to shoot it.
If we reset the aggression after a successful flee, then we can implement one of two solutions:
Reduce maxed Evasion rate.
Ranged attackers have 50% less in their rate of evasion.
rijackson741 wrote:No. They are there for a reason. You can enter a new map without fear of being immediately mobbed. You can also stand and survey the new ground and monsters to see what you want to do (including looking for what might be safe spots). If you cover every map from edge to edge with spawn area that would change the nature of the game completely. And if we did do that then there would really be nowhere to flee to, not even another map.

Adding new features to combat is fine, but not if doing so fundamentally changes the game and nerfs a lot of peoples builds.
I wouldn't want that, that's right. But consider what twirlimp assumed that one doesn't exit combat mode once you flee from melee range. Hence, the mob is able to get closer among your attacks or movements.
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Re: Github Fork: Ranged Weapons, Monsters follow player and/or flee.

Post by rijackson741 » Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:53 am

We could argue about the details of this for a long time, and if we were designing a new game we would probably eventually come to an agreement about the best implementation. But I see no way to implement this in AT without seriously changing the nature of combat, and thereby nerfing a lot of peoples builds. So, you are not going to convince me ;) . This is an open source game though, so it could be forked to another version where these ideas are implemented. That's one of the good things about open source software. It would be a lot of work though, because much else in the game would have to be rebalanced.
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Re: Github Fork: Ranged Weapons, Monsters follow player and/or flee.

Post by Voom » Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:35 am

Yes we could. So you admit I'm right, thank you. ;) (jk)
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Re: Github Fork: Ranged Weapons, Monsters follow player and/or flee.

Post by Nut » Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:59 am

I really like the ranged weapons and it is realized very good. But I can't see how to solve the problem with monsters blocking the path:
Either you kill them slowly from a distance, or if they go for you you might just go around them.

There are other games with a special combat area where you could have ranged weapons, fleeing, passing by, etc.
But this would change AT too much I think.
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Re: Github Fork: Ranged Weapons, Monsters follow player and/or flee.

Post by rijackson741 » Wed Feb 15, 2017 12:25 pm

I really enjoyed playing with the ranged weapons and monsters chasing you everywhere. I am not against it in principle, I just don't see a way to integrate it into AT without messing up what we already have.
Level: 64, XP: 4734786, HP: 196, AC: 246%, AD: 49-59, AP: 3, ECC: 25%, CM: 3, BC: 127%, DR: 2
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Re: Github Fork: Ranged Weapons, Monsters follow player and/or flee.

Post by Nick » Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:42 pm

Nut wrote:I really like the ranged weapons and it is realized very good. But I can't see how to solve the problem with monsters blocking the path:
Either you kill them slowly from a distance, or if they go for you you might just go around them.
Could have it so that one monster could agro another towards the player if that monster is blocking the path.

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Re: Github Fork: Ranged Weapons, Monsters follow player and/or flee.

Post by Tomcat » Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:11 pm

Could you allow monsters to leave their spawn areas to chase you once you start shooting? This would allow map changes to remain safe without letting you simply shoot from a safe spot.

Then again, many maps specifically use small or even single-square spawn areas for specific purposes, so the redesign of existing areas might be almost as much work...on top of the movement code changes, of course.
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Re: Github Fork: Ranged Weapons, Monsters follow player and/or flee.

Post by rijackson741 » Wed Feb 15, 2017 5:12 pm

Tomcat wrote:Could you allow monsters to leave their spawn areas to chase you once you start shooting? This would allow map changes to remain safe without letting you simply shoot from a safe spot.
I guess you could make them chase you only if it's a ranged attack. That way nothing would change for current combat tactics.
Tomcat wrote:Then again, many maps specifically use small or even single-square spawn areas for specific purposes, so the redesign of existing areas might be almost as much work...on top of the movement code changes, of course.
That's a good point, and a big problem. Some monsters are there specifically so that you can't get to somewhere without a fight. With ranged weapons and chasing monsters you could shoot them to draw them away, then possibly evade them and run over the bridge (or whatever) without a fight.
Level: 64, XP: 4734786, HP: 196, AC: 246%, AD: 49-59, AP: 3, ECC: 25%, CM: 3, BC: 127%, DR: 2
Gold: 232355 | RoLS: 1, RoL: 1, GoW: 1
HH: 1, CS: 2, IF: 4, Ev: 3, Re: 2, WP:DA: 1, WP:1S: 1, AP:L: 1, FS:DW: 2, S:DW: 1
SR

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Re: Github Fork: Ranged Weapons, Monsters follow player and/or flee.

Post by sdevaney » Wed Feb 15, 2017 5:20 pm

So for AT2 the way I think this gets implemented is that battles get moved to their own screen and off the overworld e.g. Final Fantasy.

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