Help Needed Debuging New Content

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nyktos
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Re: Help Needed Debuging New Content

Post by nyktos » Sun Jan 15, 2017 6:32 pm

Voom wrote:It took a month? Completed the game AND created some content?! Good for you. The maps look like someone swept them up. It took me like 2 months for my first char.
right? :lol:

he says ATCS & Tiled are easy & it made me feel retarded.

i fantasize about being a ninja on a PC but it's just not that easy for me.

i have everything working, but it was a labor.
i still have things to figure out...

i'm trying to get to a point where i can submit something & it will just work.
that's a big step for me... big tip of the hat to those nimble enough to dance through all the technical stuff.

i like pencils & brushes...
but now i want the keyboard to be a part of my skill set.

consider me motivated!
"Embrace the Shadow"

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Salzano
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Re: Help Needed Debuging New Content

Post by Salzano » Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:35 pm

Attached is version 0.2 of my quest.

I believe I made most of the suggestions, including tweaking the dialogue, toning down the monsters and sword, creating a script to give quest progress after the boss is defeated.

There is one issue on the graveyard map that I can’t figure out. In the current version, the Replace layer does not work for the reasons below but the quest can be completed.

Replace Layer Issues

It was mentioned that the player should be able to walk behind the columns and statutes. Originally, this was my intention. I had them placed them on the Above layer to do so. I also had overgrowth and cobwebs on the Above layer to make the graveyard look more deteriorated. I created a new layer called Above2, which contained only the shading.

However, when I tried to use the Replace layer to shade the screen dark (to simulate night) by replacing Above with Above2, the columns, statues, and other items would be replaced as well. I tried creating a new layer called Abovenochange. Abovenochange had the columns, statues, and other items. Above2 was made blank and Above3 would now be the dark shading.

In the Replace layer, I had a box covering the map to replace Above2 with Above3. Everything looked good in Tiled. In game, the Replace layer worked but the Abovenochange layer did not appear at all. To make the map look correct, I had to delete everything on the Abovenochange layer and put the columns and statues on the Objects layer. The drawback is the player cannot walk behind them.

Also, it was suggested that I add another Replace item to make the darkness (Above3) turn back to normal so the map does not remain dark. To do this, I tried to create a new blank layer called Above4 (positioning it directly above Above3 in Tiled) and made a box on the Replace layer that would replace Above3 (dark shading) with Above4 (blank/no shading). In game, the first replace still worked and the sky would turn dark. However, the second replace (returning the sky to normal) would not work. I tried creating a new layer called Replace2 and put the second replace on it but that didn’t work either.

Any thoughts on what is preventing my Abovenochange layer from appearing in game? Also, how do I get a second replace to work?
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Salzano
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Re: Help Needed Debuging New Content

Post by Salzano » Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:44 pm

nyktos wrote:
Voom wrote:It took a month? Completed the game AND created some content?! Good for you. The maps look like someone swept them up. It took me like 2 months for my first char.
right? :lol:

he says ATCS & Tiled are easy & it made me feel retarded.


Sorry, not my intention to boast. I should clarify. I work for myself so I was able to devote several days to this without the "boss" getting mad.

I'm pretty good with computers. I used to use Photoshop and make Flash animations in college. So the background made it easier to figure out. I have a dual monitor setup so I just put the tutorials on one screen and the programs on the other and followed along. There was a learning curve to ATCS but I got it after a while.

Tomcat
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Re: Help Needed Debuging New Content

Post by Tomcat » Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:28 pm

Impressive! I haven't tried to play around with multiple Above layers, so I'm afraid I can't help you there. Ian?
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nyktos
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Re: Help Needed Debuging New Content

Post by nyktos » Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:36 pm

Salzano wrote:Sorry, not my intention to boast.
oh, you didn't come across that way at all! :D

i was only expressing a little frustration over getting everything set up.

what you've done here is commendable! 8-)
"Embrace the Shadow"

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[Lv: 60] [HP: 175] [AC: 361] [AD: 25-39] [BC: 75]
[Dual Wielding Swords] [Unarmored Fighting]

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rijackson741
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Re: Help Needed Debuging New Content

Post by rijackson741 » Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:42 pm

Thanks. I'll take a look.

You don't actually need the replace layer, and I find it confusing. There is a replace map event. Type is replace, Name is the Quest:quest_progress, In Custom Properties the Property name is the name of the layer to be replaced, the type is string, the value is the name of the replacement layer. Some things are easier to do in ATCS, and this is one of them, because you just choose all this from drop down lists.
Level: 64, XP: 4734786, HP: 196, AC: 246%, AD: 49-59, AP: 3, ECC: 25%, CM: 3, BC: 127%, DR: 2
Gold: 232355 | RoLS: 1, RoL: 1, GoW: 1
HH: 1, CS: 2, IF: 4, Ev: 3, Re: 2, WP:DA: 1, WP:1S: 1, AP:L: 1, FS:DW: 2, S:DW: 1
SR

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Zukero
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Re: Help Needed Debuging New Content

Post by Zukero » Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:51 pm

I think part of the problem is that you always need to target one of the real layers (Ground, Items, Above or Walkable) in replace areas.
In the code, the game actually patches the part of these layers covered by the area with the contents of the source layer. That way, the rendering engine always draws Ground, Items, player & NPCs and finally Above, in that order.

There may be other issues, I haven't checked your new files yet.

@rijackson, he already uses replace areas.
Lvl: 78, XP: 8622632, Gold: 271542, RoLS: 1, ElyR: -, RoL: -, ChaR: 1, GoLF: 1, ShaF: 1, SRoV: 1, VSH: 1, WMC: 1, GoW: 1
HP: 71, AC: 301%, AD: 38-47, AP: 3, ECC: 50%, CM: 3.75, BC: 101%, DR: 2

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Zukero
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Re: Help Needed Debuging New Content

Post by Zukero » Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:20 pm

Yeah, that seems to be the issue.
You really should try to use Tiled for graphical layers edition, and then go to ATCS for all map objects (mapchange, spawn areas, replace areas....).

ATCS also includes a "replacement simulator" (last bottom tab in a map editor), but you can only (de)activate replace areas by groups, so you'll have to move one of yours out of the "Replace" group into another (Replace2 ?) for it to be of any use.

Spoiler alert, for the next ATCS, I'm trying to make the "Tiled" icon launch Tiled from ATCS, and let you edit the maps in-place. The limitation is that you need to use a filesystem that supports symlinks to host your ATCS workspace (NTFS and all Linux/Unix/MacOS filesystems will work, the FAT family, standard on USB drives will not). The easy part is done, the hard one is reloading the map once it is saved in Tiled. So long, Java 6, hello Java 7 !
Lvl: 78, XP: 8622632, Gold: 271542, RoLS: 1, ElyR: -, RoL: -, ChaR: 1, GoLF: 1, ShaF: 1, SRoV: 1, VSH: 1, WMC: 1, GoW: 1
HP: 71, AC: 301%, AD: 38-47, AP: 3, ECC: 50%, CM: 3.75, BC: 101%, DR: 2

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rijackson741
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Re: Help Needed Debuging New Content

Post by rijackson741 » Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:28 am

After a quick glance:

The dialogue is a lot better. There are still issues though. "pimp sword" is out. "awesome sword" is OK. "damn", is out. This version could be adjusted though.

The sword is still overpowered. Really, there will be no more weapons with an attack cost of 3. Ever. They are overpowered and cannot be balanced in the game. Still too many actor effects at too high a chance. However, this can also be adjusted.

Overall, this is looking good. We want the dialogue and items to be as close as possible to final, but as long as they are not way off they can be adjusted. The most important thing is the overall structure of the content, and that looks pretty good.

I'll look at it more tomorrow.

@Zukero. I wasn't referring to the replace areas, but the replace layer. It is not necessary. Neither is the script layer. All events can just be dumped into the Mapevents layer. IMO there are never enough events on any map where that would be a problem, but perhaps that's not what is wanted, from a style point of view? I have a map with a mapchange, a sign, a script, and a replace all in the Mapevents layer (and it works just fine), but if that's going to be a problem, I'll change it.

Edit: I thought about creating a new translation on Weblate to change all the dialogue to your original style. A sort of cross between The Bard's Tale and AT. It would be hilarious! I don't know if it's technically possible to create an arbitrary language on Weblate, but even if that's possible I don't have the time or the writing skills to execute it. Just a thought :lol:
Level: 64, XP: 4734786, HP: 196, AC: 246%, AD: 49-59, AP: 3, ECC: 25%, CM: 3, BC: 127%, DR: 2
Gold: 232355 | RoLS: 1, RoL: 1, GoW: 1
HH: 1, CS: 2, IF: 4, Ev: 3, Re: 2, WP:DA: 1, WP:1S: 1, AP:L: 1, FS:DW: 2, S:DW: 1
SR

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Zukero
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Re: Help Needed Debuging New Content

Post by Zukero » Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:53 am

Okay. I call these map object groups. They serve two purposes: easier reading for mapmakers and allow group (de)activation as a script reward.
Lvl: 78, XP: 8622632, Gold: 271542, RoLS: 1, ElyR: -, RoL: -, ChaR: 1, GoLF: 1, ShaF: 1, SRoV: 1, VSH: 1, WMC: 1, GoW: 1
HP: 71, AC: 301%, AD: 38-47, AP: 3, ECC: 50%, CM: 3.75, BC: 101%, DR: 2

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