Translators' feedback & opinion needed

Discussions of the development process of the game.
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Zukero
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Translators' feedback & opinion needed

Post by Zukero » Mon Apr 10, 2017 3:36 pm

Dear translators,

I'd like to have your feedback and opinion on several matters:

Weblate
  • #1 - What do you think about Weblate, our new translation platform? Is it easy to use? Is it working well?
  • #2 - Do you feel the need for better tools to gain context from a translatable string in Weblate?
ATCS & Weblate
  • #3 - Do you use ATCS, notably to get a better context on the text you want to translate?
  • #4 - I'm currently adding a feature in ATCS to help you, by adding a link to the relevant Weblate page from every translatable string in ATCS. Would you use it?
  • #5 - Would a "search" tool in ATCS help?
  • #6 - How would you rather search? By pasting a Weblate URL or by pasting an English text?
Future translations
  • #7 - If we were to add the option to play as a female character, handling localization and creating female-character versions of the text is by far the largest piece of work. The amount of translatable strings would double, but many of these would be the same for both cases. Would that be a pain for you? Do you think it's worth the shot?
  • #8 - Currently, the translatable strings shown on Weblate reflect the content of the Google Play version of the game. The current plan is to keep it that way, and update the list of translatable text once v0.7.2 is released, and release v0.7.3 "shortly" after to include the translations for the new content. The rationale is to avoid making you translate temporary text, but it has the drawback of preventing you from working on the new translations before the release. What's your opinion? Do you prefer an up-to-date moving target, or a lagging-behind stable one?

Thank you for your work on translations already, and for voicing your opinion below.
Lvl: 78, XP: 8622632, Gold: 271542, RoLS: 1, ElyR: -, RoL: -, ChaR: 1, GoLF: 1, ShaF: 1, SRoV: 1, VSH: 1, WMC: 1, GoW: 1
HP: 71, AC: 301%, AD: 38-47, AP: 3, ECC: 50%, CM: 3.75, BC: 101%, DR: 2

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Duvalon
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Re: Translators' feedback & opinion needed

Post by Duvalon » Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:11 pm

#1 I haven't used anything else but it's working out OK so far.
#2 Maybe, although most of the time I can figure out context either from surrounding strings or from having played the fame already. Something directly in weblate would be best but I'd be surprised if something like that would be possible.
#3 I have opened it once. So no, I don't use it. I've done about 3/4 of my translations on my phone so ATCS wouldn't be much use there anyway.
#4 That could be an interesting way to follow conversions instead of string lists. However it would be hard to know which strings have been translated already. Might be great for editing and reviewing though.
#5 Yes absolutely. I find it would greatly complement #4.
#6 I think English text should work well enough. Using web late URLs would complicate things a little, no?
#7 yes it would be a pain, but I think it's worth it. Though I feel this should probably be relegated to a later release than 0.7.2 or 3.
#8 I think only updating translations after release would be best. My time is very limited as it is so having to redo translations would be annoying at best.

auroradormita
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Re: Translators' feedback & opinion needed

Post by auroradormita » Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:46 pm

#1 Same as Duvalon, Weblate was here before me
#2 I've played all the current content - definitely on purpose, would be a bummer to have that kind of spoiler. Mostly the context is pretty obvious just from my memories and the strings before and after the current one, but there have been times where I've been in doubt.
#3,4,5,6 I don't use ATCS, and I can get by well enough without it that I probably won't go to the bother to install it
#7 Swedish is pretty straight forward as far as that goes, pretty much the same as English. There's he/she, him/her, but verbs etc are gender-neutral. Little Brother is rarely referred to in 3rd person in the dialogue, so hardly anything would need to be changed. So as far as Swedish goes, not a big deal.
#8 Swedish translation is a one-man show at this point, and nowhere near finished. To me it doesn't matter either way.

Firefly84
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Re: Translators' feedback & opinion needed

Post by Firefly84 » Tue Apr 11, 2017 12:29 am

#1 I'm fine with weblate.
#2 I did use Google Spreadsheet for another rpg maker game. It was a bit confusing following the red string but I had played it in German first. It is definetly not for many users.
#3-6 No, I don't.
#7 In German we have not only the he/she, his/him/her change but to adjust adjectives to the gender. The grammar has more of the old Latin than the more northern countries (I mean it geographically). It's similar to French (and other Latin-related languages) there. Perhaps it will be possible to search for key words then (like boy/Junge, you/du (for adjectives), his/seine, him/sein...).
#8 The German translation is 100% so new stuff can be translated between the next releases.

Let's see what Nut's opinion is to this.
Firefly
Lvl: 109, XP: 23683768, Gold: 277300, RoLS: 2, ElyR: 1, RoL: 2, ChaR: 1, GoLF: 1, ShaF: 4, SRoV: 6, VSH: 2, WMC: 1, GoW: 1
HP: 468, AC: 272%, AD: 86-102, AP: 4, ECC:20, CM: -, BC: 126%, DR: 2

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Nut
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Re: Translators' feedback & opinion needed

Post by Nut » Tue Apr 11, 2017 7:42 pm

#1
I have not done much in Weblate yet, but it looks really good. I am eager to try and help translating new content :D

#2
Here I totally share Auroradormitas opinion, so I just quote: "Mostly the context is pretty obvious just from my memories and the strings before and after the current one, but there have been times where I've been in doubt."
I just wanted to add that it might be helpful to see the person or location of the text - but it is already there: In the source informations name - great!

#3-6
ATCS I have not tried yet. :oops:

#7 I think a female character would be nice. The workload depends on how it is realized. I would vote against simple copying the strings. But Zukero, in another thread you had already proposed an idea with fallback (something like: if special female text exist then use this, else the male version). That sound great and not too much work - at least for German language.
Firefly is right that in German he/she and some other words are gender specific. On the other hand the texts are mostly dialog: The NPCs talk to the hero directly and not in 3rd person. So I don't expect too much problems.
(Probably it is more work for developers than for translators? Or do you have such a nice tool like Weblate? :mrgreen: )

#8
I definitely don't want unpublished strings in Weblate, that would be to much a spoiler. If Weblate already contained unreleseased versions, then I would not do translations anymore. I want to have fun with the new versions myself...
Better one or maybe two releases with bugfixes and missing translations between big new versions.
Nut
_____
Nut: Lvl 61, HP 103, AC 273%, AD 32-41, CHS 67, BC 159% WA 3, Do 5, BS MC 1, CS 2, IF 1, Reg 1, WP 1, S 1, AP L 1, RoLS
Anwyn: Lvl 52, HP 126, AC 221%, AD 28-36, CHS 27, BC 119% Do 4, CS 2, IF 3, Ev 2, Reg 1, Ta 1, RoLS

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Zukero
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Re: Translators' feedback & opinion needed

Post by Zukero » Wed Apr 12, 2017 5:04 pm

Thank you all for your quick replies.

I'm glad weblate works great for you.
I'm also glad you're not afraid of the female character.
I'm also happy that we seem to have a consensus on status quo for #8. Less work for me.

I guess I need to fire ATCS' advertising agency (snap, that's me :lol:), but maybe v0.6.0 will convince those that translate on a real computer rather than on Android.

If you're a translator that hasn't voiced his opinion yet, you're still more than welcome to do so.
Lvl: 78, XP: 8622632, Gold: 271542, RoLS: 1, ElyR: -, RoL: -, ChaR: 1, GoLF: 1, ShaF: 1, SRoV: 1, VSH: 1, WMC: 1, GoW: 1
HP: 71, AC: 301%, AD: 38-47, AP: 3, ECC: 50%, CM: 3.75, BC: 101%, DR: 2

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DanielS
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Re: Translators' feedback & opinion needed

Post by DanielS » Mon Apr 17, 2017 1:30 pm

Sorry for late answer. That was a mad week for me...

Weblate
#1 - Is it is working well and I don't have a problem with it.
#2 - No ,i don't need them.All I need is is correct order of sentences.

ATCS & Weblate
#3 - I haven't used ATCS so far, but I think that I will start do use it when You add translation tool. I wrote about that some times ago.
#4 - I haven't used ATCS so far.
#5 - I haven't used ATCS so far.
#6 - I haven't used ATCS so far.

Future translations
#7 - No problem, i'll do it. But It will take a lot of work and I can not figure out how long it will take. I would suggest to include and test a new polish translation before this to avoid double work.
#8 - I suggest to include all existing Weblate translations without new content to the next release. This will allow us to check new translations and new content in the game.

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Zukero
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Re: Translators' feedback & opinion needed

Post by Zukero » Mon Apr 17, 2017 1:38 pm

No problem, I'm glad you answered.

ATCS now has an integration with weblate. It doesn't allow translating in ATCS, which cannot be done with the current state of the weblate API. You can see the translation status, the current translation, and have a direct link to the relevant weblate page, so that modifying the translation is just one click away.
Lvl: 78, XP: 8622632, Gold: 271542, RoLS: 1, ElyR: -, RoL: -, ChaR: 1, GoLF: 1, ShaF: 1, SRoV: 1, VSH: 1, WMC: 1, GoW: 1
HP: 71, AC: 301%, AD: 38-47, AP: 3, ECC: 50%, CM: 3.75, BC: 101%, DR: 2

Mayweed
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Re: Translators' feedback & opinion needed

Post by Mayweed » Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:47 pm

#1: I tried it, when it was introduced, but I have not really worked with it yet. From what I hve seen, it seems to be ok.

#2: Well, the old tool had no context, so I got it from what I remembered of the game itself and later I tried ATCS. As you announced some progress of ATCS, that will be fine. No other tools needed.

#3: I tried it and I found what I looked for.

#4 & #5: Yes.

#6: I'd prefer searching by text. Would a list of multiple search results be possible, to get all occurences of a word or phrase?

#7: Wouldn't it be possible to double only those texts, that directly address or describe the character? Names of items, monsters, place descriptions and so on would remain in a single version. Or: first make only new entries for female chars when it is required in english and if any translator needs something new, than double that entry. So in the end only those texts are doubled that are really needed. Would be a lot more work though.

#8: First I thought it would be fine to have those new texts, that are already definite, so that the translation is not too far behind the original version. But of course Nut is right about being spoiled.

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Duvalon
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Re: Translators' feedback & opinion needed

Post by Duvalon » Tue Jun 06, 2017 2:34 am

OK. I've downloaded and tried 0.6.2. I like the translation link and translation status. But I do find translating with ATCS a bit clunky.

I thought where ATCS would help most is following conversations but it doesn't really help all that much. What I like most is the dialog tree, but it's not integrated with the translation. You need to double click on a string which opens up a tab and then you can click the link. After that you can click on Replies/Next Phrase yet that only seems to work for one follow-up. And if you go to the dialog tree of that new string you don't see the whole tree anymore, just what comes after (maybe...)

1. Ideally I'd prefer to open the main dialog tree, see which strings are already translated (color, token, or whatever), and have a right-click menu (or double-click in translator-mode only) to go to weblate from each string's box.
2. The current workflow results in a whole lot of tabs opened. Having either a "Close All" button, or making the tabs all the same width (so you can close many without moving the mouse and just clicking like a madman) would be great.
3. Would it be possible to filter out translated strings? The dialogues folder is huge and unorganised. I find it hard to find my way around. Or at least if #1 is implemented, filter out and secondary dialog elements and just show the top-level that holds the whole conversation in translator mode.
4. Was there a search function? I can't seem to find one...

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