Then my average damage per round would be 227, and fiernaq's would be 221.
how do you calculate all this?
here is my rough estimate: let's take an equipped damage of 10 for easy calculation. with 12 AP that would allow 6 attacks, thus the QSD would give 60 DPR. equipping decent critical gear can give 25% ECC with a 3x multiplier for 3 AP per attack. that makes 3 regular hits for 30 damage, plus one 3x critical for an additional 30 damage. thus if all four attacks hit and one critical occurs, that would be 60 DPR as well. of course, misses would affect the QSD in a linear way, while they would rob the crit-based character of the big hits that keep the numbers even. am i calculating this correctly?
the advantage of a crit-based dual-wielder is the ability to push the damage higher and increase the ECC beyond 25% without going over 3 AP per attack. dual-wielding QSDs only adds additional AC. perhaps dual-wielding was designed to weaken the QSD's dominance of maximum DPR?
If you spent all your skill points on CM, you could technically get your DPR higher with a crit weapon than duel wielding QSD
Yeah, I'm squishy. I still have to watch my HP closely and stay as close to topped off as I can so that a single crit doesn't find me back in a bed somewhere and I'm still not up to the ~320 damage per round number that is my current goal let alone the 300 damage in 4 attacks that I'd like to have (so I can miss twice and still deal 300 damage). Rijackson's build is strong enough to clear all current game content fairly easily and he doesn't have to worry as much about getting hit. In fact, overall I'd say his build is the better one. I just happen to enjoy the play style of my build too much to let it go.
pokerjunky wrote:how do you calculate all this?
ADPR (Average Damage Per Round) needs the monster's BC as well which is why Rijackson mentioned that in his scenario. Basically, it allows us to apply the chance to hit as a percentage to the max possible damage per round. So yes, with an AD of 10, max AP of 12, a QSD and either JoF or MT equipped the max possible damage per round would be 60. However, most monsters have BC, some have DR, some are immune to crits... all that has to be considered as well.
My AC is 290% which gives a Chance to Hit (CtH) against a 100% BC monster of about 91%. Assuming the monster has 0 DR, I have an ADPR against that monster of 49 * 6 * 0.91 = 267 (makes me wonder if Rijackson was rounding differently than I was ). 49 is just (44 + 54) / 2.
pokerjunky wrote:perhaps dual-wielding was designed to weaken the QSD's dominance of maximum DPR?
I think it was
To be fair, it was kind of needed... in fact, for a while there, both the QSD build and the unarmed build were so obscenely overpowered that it wasn't even funny. I think they managed to knock both builds down to where they should be. Unarmed should always have lower potential than armed and the QSD, while powerful, is a very limited build and won't scale as well as other builds do that have access to fighting style skills. Eventually, monsters will be added that I just won't be able to survive and I'll have to throw some points into survivability stuff like BC or HP. It doesn't do me much good if I can one-hit everything if I can also be one-hit. I'm not that into save/loading
Pyrizzle wrote:If you spent all your skill points on CM, you could technically get your DPR higher with a crit weapon than duel wielding QSD
I probably will put some skill points into CM. And actually, if I had spent 10 more level ups on AD rather than BC then with 2 x PRoBS I would have an average damage per round of 283. So getting average damage to where fiernaq is could be done more than one way, but only for monsters that are not immune to critical hits. Lots of the really bad beasties are immune though, and for them there is just no way to beat a QSD build like fiernaq's for damage.
pokerjunky wrote:how do you calculate all this?
You cannot just ignore your AC or the monsters BC. Here's how to calculate the average damage per hit:
Average damage.png
To get average damage per round just multiply by the number of hits per round.
pokerjunky wrote:the advantage of a crit-based dual-wielder is the ability to push the damage higher and increase the ECC beyond 25% without going over 3 AP per attack.
Not by much. Assuming you are using DotSP in the main hand, the highest CS for the off-hand weapon would be 10, which will only add about 3% to your ECC.
pokerjunky wrote:dual-wielding QSDs only adds additional AC.
It also adds the negative block chance of the second QSD, so dual wielding QSDs does not work well. There's a whole thread on this somewhere.
fiernaq wrote:I just happen to enjoy the play style of my build too much to let it go.
Bingo . A lot of the reason I close dualwield was because it means I can mix and match weapons. So yes, it gives a powerful build, but most importantly, it's fun. There's not much point in playing the game if it isn't fun
fiernaq wrote:makes me wonder if Rijackson was rounding differently than I was ).
With an AC of 290% and a BC of 100% your chance of hitting is 94.72%, and 0.9472*49*6=278 when it's rounded down.
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*EDIT*
Discovered an interactive graphing website that allows you to more easily see the details of the CtH formula and I've made a saved graph for it that anyone can view. The X axis is C (Your AC - Monster BC). The Y axis is your Chance to Hit. Only crucial bit of info to note is that as far as I can tell, the absolute minimum your CtH can ever be is 50% which is not represented by this graph (not sure how to do that). Basically, if Your AC - Monster BC is less than or equal to 50 then your CtH is 50%. https://www.desmos.com/calculator/zuvqig83h5
2013-10-15 13_36_15-Andor's Trail - Chance to Hit (CtH) formula.jpg
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Eek! I had an error in my formula. You are correct. That means all the numbers I gave above are wrong, but they are not wrong by much so my argument still holds.
fiernaq wrote:I tend to be nitpicky to a fault sometimes, sorry
Me too, which makes it all the more annoying that I had an error.
Regarding the lower limit of 50% on the chance to hit, I am certain the Wiki is wrong. I don't think there is a lower limit, but if there is one it's less than 50%.
. A lot of the reason I close dual wield was because it means I can mix and match weapons. So yes, it gives a powerful build, but most importantly, it's fun. There's not much point in playing the game if it isn't fun 
