Attack styles.

[Taledus]

Maybe there could be some sort of compromise with 1 attack button that allow you to use your selected attack, but provide combo-boxes that open up for quick selection of which hand does what, or if you would rather use a combat ability instead. Each time you selected attack it would use your same selection until you decided to change it...

+1, I like to see easy solution which not slow you down, if you do not eabt to change attack style or type.

Alright, to further this, there would still be 1 attack button, but 3 smaller button with icon images to represent which is selected:

Attack Button - represented by by the AT dual sword icon...
End Turn Button - represented by a return symbol...
Flee Button - represented by a silloutte running...

Brings up combo-box selections:

Left hand & right hand attacks would be represented by which Attack Style they were using. If these were changed then Combat Ability would reset to nothing...

High - Upwards sword icon
Medium - Sideways sword icon
Low - Downwards sword icon

Combat Ability list - each Ability would have an icon representation, when selected would display as the icon for the Combat ability button, then the left and right attack icons would reset to nothing...

However, let me simplify this even further...

Long press the attack button to pop up combo box for change. You can select the left attack & right attack (High/Medium/Low), or select an ability to use. If an ability is used it changes the regular attack button to it's icon representation. If left/right attack were used, they could change to the following in order to reflect which was selected:

[ + / + ] - High first, High second
[ * / * ] - Medium first, Medium second
[ - / - ] - Low first, Low second
[ + / * ] - High first, Medium second
[ + / - ] - High first, Low second
[ * / - ] - Medium first, Low second
[ * / + ] - Medium first, High second
[ - / + ] - Low first, High second
[ - / * ] - Low first, Medium second

...I am not going to list all 9, but you get the point...

[Pyrizzle]

I think there shouldnt be an attack button for both hands and that 2 handed attacks should be one action.

The idea of longpressing to open a window with attack styles is a good idea.

[Taledus]

Let's simplify things a bit because there is a lot going on here. I say nix the stances...if you are changing your stance in order to gain a bonus for an attack, but using all of your Attack Points in the process, makes those useless...so far right now, we will stick with these for simplicity:

Combat Abilities:

• () Whirlwind Attack - Costs Max AP - Hits all adjacent mobs
  () Disarm - ?
  () Trip- Costs Max AP - Opponent loses next turn.

These are trained with Trainers located throughout the AT-Verse...possibly only available after a quest.
These would cost money to train.
These would have different levels that would decrease the amount of AP required.
These would have a max level of 3.
These would be represented by icons.

Dual Wielding

Lets say for simplicity's sake dual wielding works exactly like I was stating in my other response:

Weapons with an attack cost of 6AP or more are automatically 2 handed weapons.

You can equip any two swords that have a cost of 5AP or less. The first attacking hand is normal, but the second attack will cost an additional 1AP to use / -10% to Attack Chance / -(1-3) Attack Damage / + 3% to Block Chance...

Attack Styles:

• High ([+]) - Aimed attack - this would cost 2 more Action Points, but would provide 10% more to Attack Chance.
  
  Medium ([*]) - Normal attack - would take place just like description for dual wielding above.
  
  Low ([-]) - Strong attack - this would add 2-4 to Attack Damage, but would have 10% less to Attack Chance.

Now, with all these additional features added, you would have 1 attack button with the selected dual wielding attack style shown (see below).

Simply hit to attack the normal way to keep attacking.

Dual wielding attack would happen simultaneously.

In order to change the selected attack style for each hand, or chose a Combat Ability instead, long press the attack icon and the following scrollable list would pop up:

List options

• [icon]Whirlwind Attack
  [icon]Disarm
  [icon]Trip
  [ + / + ] - High first, High second
  [ * / * ] - Medium first, Medium second
  [ - / - ] - Low first, Low second
  [ + / * ] - High first, Medium second
  [ + / - ] - High first, Low second
  [ * / - ] - Medium first, Low second
  [ * / + ] - Medium first, High second
  [ - / + ] - Low first, High second
  [ - / * ] - Low first, Medium second

Wow...I really like the way these ideas all tie in together. They seem like they would work well together in order to fight all those bloody mobs coming up in v.0.7...

If this all looks fairly good to everyone, we can take this to the drawing board next...

[Pyrizzle]

Meh, still not a fan. Too complicated for my tastes. IMHO I'd rather see the fighting style stay the way it is.

[Taledus]

Edit: Off & short-sighted childish post deleted by myself. The forums are no place for this. Sorry guys.

[Pyrizzle]

Didn't say that, I'm not a fan of having all teh extra buttons for fighting and different types of swings (hard, accurate, defencive).

I do love the ideas for Duel weilding(duel weilding is epic and i have tried it before and love it) , and the concepts for combat abilities are a neat idea as well (whirlwind seems like it would be great for when the mobs start moving to you during combat) .

There are ideas out there I am a fan of and some i am not.

I was just voicing an opinion. there is no need to get offended. Not evey idea will please every person.

[fiernaq]

I only have one small comment concerning all of these proposed changes to the combat system.

If you're going to make fighting more complex and detailed each fight will take longer meaning you will gain less XP/min. In order to compensate, you would need to raise the XP given by every monster.

Starting at level 1 I turn off all animations and loot windows and just blaze through the game stopping only to heal if I get low. Making the fight system more complex requiring multiple buttons and long presses and other snazzy whodingers and whatnots will only slow me down. Don't get me wrong, I love the idea. Fallout had an incredibly awesome combat system that was quite complex and took quite a while but the XP gain was still good for the amount of time it took. Make the fight system in AT more complex and you'll want each monster to provide more XP per kill to make up for the loss in speed.

[Taledus]

I only have one small comment concerning all of these proposed changes to the combat system.

If you're going to make fighting more complex and detailed each fight will take longer meaning you will gain less XP/min. In order to compensate, you would need to raise the XP given by every monster.

Starting at level 1 I turn off all animations and loot windows and just blaze through the game stopping only to heal if I get low. Making the fight system more complex requiring multiple buttons and long presses and other snazzy whodingers and whatnots will only slow me down. Don't get me wrong, I love the idea. Fallout had an incredibly awesome combat system that was quite complex and took quite a while but the XP gain was still good for the amount of time it took. Make the fight system in AT more complex and you'll want each monster to provide more XP per kill to make up for the loss in speed.

I would see it as "optionally" taking longer, meaning you can actually set your preferred method of Attack Style in the Hero menu, or have the option to change it on the fly during combat.

And while I agree, this would make things a bit more complex, drawing it out beforehand is the way to go. From there me, or perhaps another person interested in seeing how this works, could (attempt to) implement it in a copy of the source to try out the "fairness" of the overall concept.

Ultimately adding any more content to the current v.0.6.12 engine as far as combat goes is going to complicate things up a bit...I am certain that Oskar and the other coders know this. However, I am working on the wiki (sparingly right now) and can put in a layman's explanation of any additional engine features. Older members here might be able to easily follow along, while a new player might have a bit of difficulty understanding the complexity of things. It would all fall down to the way things are explained, so AT-Verse specifics can be generally understood by all players

I don't think most of the ideas here will ever make it to the current engine though anytime soon...but they are here for discussing if the need is ever there

[nyktos]

generally, i find hack & slash a bit boring...
and i usually prefer a deeper combat system to a simple one.

but i would think that in the end, you would be able to customize either way.

1. have a character that has many choices in battle

[or]

2. have a character that only has the initial "attack"

[fiernaq]

The point being that any time combat is allowed to become more complex, it is always better to take the time to attack based on each unique situation rather than forming a generic "do this each time" or even coming up with a "plan of options" for generic situations. So yes, add in the choices to do more than just "attack" and people like me will want to use them. After all, that's why they're being put in. However, doing so will cause the game to be played at a much slower pace. It could now take 30 seconds to kill a monster compared to the 2 seconds it took before the complexity was added and all you had to do was tap the screen as fast as you could to end combat quicker before moving on to the next monster.

Regardless of whether or not the added complexity remains forced or optional it will never be in your best interest to just run around hitting stuff if you could instead pick and choose your style of attack to match your opponents weakness and if complexity is added then it will always take longer to kill the same number of opponents as it did back when you could just tap away at the screen.