How Evasion is calculated?

[Spark]

How Evasion is calculated?
Is there some base chance for all monsters to attack/catch when character tryes to flee or it depends on something?

5% is added or the chance is increased by 5%?
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And... I found an answer by Saruman in another topic

About evasion skill:
-there is base 20% chance that flee attemp fail, so with evasion 4 you suggest all the time.
-any monster next to you have 15% bace chance for first attack in every round. With evasion 3 you can stay forever next to unmobilised monster. However monster got first attack tooif they try to move your square.

So if NPC moves truly chaotically he has a 1/8 chance to attack first regardless to the evasion skill.

[fiernaq]

One a side note, monsters cannot move diagonally but they can attack diagonally. In other words, with Evasion 0 it doesn't matter which of the 8 squares surrounding the monster you move to, they can still attack you but with Evasion 3 you are 100% safe provided you are standing at one of the four corners and not one of the four sides. I feel like this needs some pictures...

AT_ex1.png

Example 1) No points in Evasion
Standing to the diagonal of the monster, the monster has a 15% chance to attack you. Standing to the side of the monster, the monster has a 15% chance to attack you and can also move to where you are currently standing which would also initiate combat with the monster getting first hit. Since the number of other squares the monster can move to changes depending on where it is (surrounded by a cliff or limited by the monster spawn area for example) you can't easily put a set % chance of getting attacked.

Example 2) Three points in Evasion
Standing to the diagonal of the monster, the monster has a 0% chance to attack you and cannot move to where you are thus making you 100% safe provided the positioning does not change. Standing to the side of the monster, the monster has a 0% chance to attack you but can still move to where you are currently standing which would initiate combat with the monster getting first hit.

I make it a point to always approach monsters from the diagonal if at all possible. Unfortunately, my character doesn't always go where I want him to go but that's just something I'll have to live with until one of the many movement suggestions gets implemented *cough cough hint hint *

[Sarumar]

One a side note, monsters cannot move diagonally but they can attack diagonally. In other words, with Evasion 0 it doesn't matter which of the 8 squares surrounding the monster you move to, they can still attack you but with Evasion 3 you are 100% safe provided you are standing at one of the four corners and not one of the four sides. I feel like this needs some pictures...

AT_ex1.png

Example 1) No points in Evasion
Standing to the diagonal of the monster, the monster has a 15% chance to attack you. Standing to the side of the monster, the monster has a 15% chance to attack you and can also move to where you are currently standing which would also initiate combat with the monster getting first hit. Since the number of other squares the monster can move to changes depending on where it is (surrounded by a cliff or limited by the monster spawn area for example) you can't easily put a set % chance of getting attacked.

Example 2) Three points in Evasion
Standing to the diagonal of the monster, the monster has a 0% chance to attack you and cannot move to where you are thus making you 100% safe provided the positioning does not change. Standing to the side of the monster, the monster has a 0% chance to attack you but can still move to where you are currently standing which would initiate combat with the monster getting first hit.

I make it a point to always approach monsters from the diagonal if at all possible. Unfortunately, my character doesn't always go where I want him to go but that's just something I'll have to live with until one of the many movement suggestions gets implemented *cough cough hint hint *

+1 really nicely explained !
...that is why i love evasion ...

[Pyrizzle]

fiernaq:

That is by far one of the best explinations i have ever read for the Evasion skills.

A huuuuuuuge +1 from me! Great work buddy!

[Spark]

Yes, you are safe when you stand on diagonal square to the monster or approaching from this side - theoretically!!!
But in virtual life monsters change their position very fast, and you don't have such accurate control on you character. So often when you approached to the square you thought is diagonal to monster the monster changed its position and it is not diagonal, or you miss-point your character. Sometimes I feel like dancing around monsters before I can attack it. Control needs improvement, it is interesting to read your your suggestion, fiernaq.

Also I read monster doesn't move diagonally because this is not technically implemented yet.

Considering lack of control, monster frequent movement and possible changes in the future I don't relay on diagonal positioning very much.

With some probability, you can predict monster movement, but this also doesn't give confidence you will stand diagonal to NPC taking in account reasons mentioned above.

Did someone suggested "you move-everything moves" concept? And why developers don't like it?

[Zukero]

From what I observed, it seems that a monster either moves, changes its orientation (will move in another direction next round, but doesn't move this round), or stays in place. So a monster will always mark the pause (at least one movement round) before moving in another direction. I'll check the code....
Doesn't help predict which spot will or will not be diagonal, but helps passing through the swarm sometimes !

[fiernaq]

I'd link the several posts on movement but I'm too lazy and BBCode forum search isn't very me friendly (I would say "user friendly" but I'm sure there are some people who prefer the BBCode forum search). Instead, I'll be even more lazy and type up a "brief" synopsis.

In my opinion, there is definitely some more work needed on movement in general.

• Monsters probably should be able to move diagonally.
• The player should have better control over how they approach a monster.
• The whole "finger in the way" issue shouldn't exist (even for those with small screens).

There are several ways to change movement that would improve it over the current system but the following combination of changes are my personal favorite. I'll list them in my own personal order of most important to least important but realize that they can be implemented in any order and are not dependent on each other so you could implement just one or just two or even choose a different one in addition to one of these.

1) Stance
A 3-way toggle button should exist on the main screen that allows a player to switch from a defensive posture (or stance) to a passive posture and then to an aggressive posture. The difference would be as follows:
Defensive - Your player will attempt to avoid getting within one square of a monster. If you are attempting to move east and there is a monster one square to the north of your path your character will attempt to move one square south rather than moving in a straight line. Obviously, terrain limitations apply but the idea would be for you to simply press to go in a direction and your character would do its best to avoid even getting near any monsters.
Passive - The current system. You press to go in a direction and your character goes in that direction regardless of monsters or walls or random pieces of tupperware.
Aggressive - Pressing in the general direction of a monster, if you move to within one square (including diagonal) of a monster, your next movement will be to attack regardless of whether you would have moved beside the monster had you been in Passive stance. This effectively gives all monsters a size value of 9 squares. Move into any one of the 8 outer squares and your next move will be an attack.

2) Centered Screen with Fogged Edge Maps
While there are other ways to address the issue surrounding this (such as implementing a d-pad, using a visible path to finger, etc) I think this is probably the easiest method while still completely solving the problem. To do this, simply place the main character center screen and never have him/her move. The screen moves around the character instead of the character moving around the screen. This includes the edge of a map. Currently, when the edge of the map hits the edge of the screen the map stops moving and your character will begin moving towards the edge of the screen. If you are not using the d-pad then this means that eventually your character will come to rest directly under your finger. What if, while you were pressing there, a monster spawned in that location? You would suddenly find yourself in combat without realizing it. Instead, with the character always being in the exact center of the screen, the edge of the map would have to come towards your character. This introduces a problem all its own, though: blackness. If only one map is loaded into memory at a time then as the edge of the map passes the edge of the screen you will wind up with almost half a screen that's nothing but black. To solve this, load the neighboring maps as well but leave them "fogged" with just the base terrain loaded and a dark grey overlay on top to show that you aren't on that map yet. This is similar to games where you're walking along and you can see for quite a ways but suddenly you the game pauses as it "loads" the next area. You could already see into it but you weren't actually there so to save memory it simply loads the base terrain and then as soon as you cross the threshold it loads the rest of the data.

Don't worry, almost done.

3) Screen Area
The current screen has four main components: bottom bar (xp, hp, char button, quick slot button), main screen (your character, terrain, monsters), combat bar (monster icon, monster HP, attack/flee/end turn buttons), and the combat log area (text description of the fight). Unfortunately, both the combat bar and the combat log area currently cover parts of the main screen. If you're moving north-east and run into a monster you will no longer be pressing "move north-east" you could be pressing "end turn" or "flee". If you bring your finger down just a bit to attack the monster without clicking anywhere on the combat bar you will find you have to press twice for each attack: once to clear the previous log messages from the screen and then once to actually attack. In my opinion, I'd rather have a smaller main screen that's static and never covered by anything else (except for when you're in a full menu) than to have a larger main screen that gets covered by things like the combat bar and combat log area. I see this as more of an option though, especially for those with really small screens. You can either leave a blank area where the combat bar/log area will be or you could place an empty combat bar and leave old combat messages but either way, shrink the main movement screen so that it's never covered by those bars.

[Spark]

Fiernaq great suggestions, why don't create thread for them?

I like second solution very much!
I have nothing against black screen outside of the map. I've played Angband a lot. I was confused with the current screen movement when map movement changes depending on how close character is to the edge. This takes time to used to and even now it is hard to determinate how close to the next area you are. I used to edges marked by line, color gradient or fadet tiles.

I like everything standardized, and don't like things change their behavior by their own reasons discarding my intention. So I'd prefer to have better control than let some interfaces decide what is comfortable. That is why I don't like many of modern automatized so called "smart" decisions. But this is another topic.

I think centering character will let to use edges of screen like arrows on the game-pad without "finger in the way" problem.

Angband, Nethack and other rogue-like games have this option in manu. I think implementing centered positioning is even technically easier than current one. Which suppose to leave more map visible and to be more aye-pleasant but not so comfortable.

I think transparent little arrows on the edges of the screen will help to used to drawn area for 8 directions. Once this picture is imprinted in memory you could disable this in menu. Current d-pad doesn't takes in an account that people play today on touch screens with both fingers. I don't now if everyone, but I do

I less like 1st solution, because I think it will lead to very often changing of modes, and after all this will not solve problem of movement accuracy. It could make it even more problematic when game considers some approaching as dangerous distance and doesn't let you enter this square. Or gives you "smart" solution and moves you in those square which you don't want to move. It also rises other problems with narrow passages.

This also looks like game game plays by itself, not you. If you didn't reacted and stepped on the monster it is game situation, and it is honest (as long as game control is honest with you), but if game moves you to some square because of danger before you even realize this - it is cheating. What next? Let the game chose better weapon and fight for you I'm joking But there are a lot of such stupid games in the android market. And I was happy to find Andor's Trail, beside legion of stupid “press next-next”, sissy-anime-boy, pay-for-cool-weapon games. It is true there is not much games which made people write mathematic formulas or hesitate between quest decisions.

More about 1st solution. What if you hope to slip through the risky square and than go on with your safe trip? You will need to do 3 actions change you mode, slip, and change it again. When with accurate control you just need 1 action instead – just move. Moreover, with current NPC movement this is impossible, because while you changing your modes NPC moves to another position. At the same time with more accurate system of movement you don't need to switch, you don't separate from the game, you just keep on playing.
First one is easier to implement, it is clear and simple.

[fiernaq]

The reason I described the 1st item is because I have, countless times, ran at a monster only to have my fat fingers cause my character to run around the monster instead of into it like I intended. If the squares were all 10mm x 10mm then that wouldn't be as much of a problem but with squares that aren't even 5mm x 5mm I constantly find myself running 2 or even 3 complete circles around a monster before it finally gets the first hit in when the whole time I was trying to attack it. I threw the defensive posture in there as well because sometimes you are just trying to run along (Remgard path) and you just want to get there without having to worry about much fighting because you're already level 80 and already been along that path more times than you can count. Defensive wouldn't completely eliminate combat, if for example there was a path only 2 squares wide and a monster was in one square then even defensive wouldn't let you walk through walls so you'd end up running right beside the monster and chance a combat. The point isn't to completely take control of your character, it's to give your fingers the power to more accurately do what you want them to do. Basically a mind reader that says "oh, you don't want to have any combat right now so I'll make your character move exactly how you would move it yourself if you didn't have such fat fingers" or "looking for a fight? how about I make your character attack every chance it gets".

And besides, for those like yourself that want complete control (including accepting the consequences of accidentally moving in a way you didn't intend) you can simply leave it in Passive stance which plays exactly the way it does now.

[Spark]

Yes running from one town to another and fighting weak monsters could be annoying.
I thought it good to have teleport which costs affordable money for high levels.

If the squares were all 10mm x 10mm then that wouldn't be as much of a problem but with squares that aren't even 5mm x 5mm I constantly find myself running 2 or even 3 complete circles

There is zoom option, however I don't like it because it hides big part of the world.