Planning Build for Beginner

[ForceClosed]

Before I get started I want to warn you all that this post will be my unstructured thoughts flowing out through my fingers. As a new player, only reaching level 12 on my first account and exploring a modest portion of the game, I have a lot of questions to help aid my progress before I spend too much time developing an account. I apologize for all my stupid questions with obvious answers.

BUILD TYPES

From what I can tell, the only three options are 2H, Dual-wield, and Sword+shield. Out of those builds I find 2H and dual-wield most interesting. My type of game play will be aimed towards offensive power for high-level farming purposes. I started my first account for damage reduction and defensive style play, but with the way we can save before fights and how tedious battling is for exp/items, I think attack is more important considering my time. A defensive build may in fact be stronger overall, but I don't want to grind that much. I will still mention my thoughts to see if you all can convince me to go the sword+shield route. From here on assume I will place skills into increased fortitude for every build type as that is the best use of skill points when upgrading an account. I don't have any problem planning out when to place skill points into upgrades, but rather which route to take. Now, let's discuss the quandaries.

Sword+shield

After looking at the stats of shields and swords, I believe the best option here would be to use the quickstrike dagger with high AD and -AP accessories to attack like 6 times per turn. Since there are so many attack chances per turn I think having a balance of AC and BC would suffice, or even a heavy BC/AC account (depending on play style). If PvP were introduced I would possibly argue to go heavy BC, but with the game being strictly PvM, I think AD and AC are more important for grinding.

Another option would be to use a single RoL with the remgard combat shield, or another shield if marrowtaint is preferred. This will net fewer attacks so I think block chance may be more suited to keep HP up while fighting. This seems like a good PvP option, but not ideal for farming monsters.

So, for a sword+shield build, I would see myself basing it around quickstrike dagger for quick enemy deaths (killing them before they can attack). I would use a RoL for HP management when needed, but mostly rely on QS for training. My account would have high AD and AC with skills placed towards crits, the appropriate fighting style and specialization, and whatever else is suggested or that I feel might be beneficial.

If I use QS with -1 AP necklace I will attack 6 times per round. The fighting style (2) will increase its AC by 50% (or 1.25^2?) resulting in .2*1.5=30% AC. I don't care so much about the shield boost. With specialization I will get an additional 10% (of original, or 15% if applied after the FS buff) for a total of 40% AC. The 20% damage increase doesn't exist since QS has no damage. With this build, ignoring all other equipment, I will end with 40% AC, X damage (depends on skill level points), and unsure about shield BC % because I don't know if I'd prefer a high BC or low -AC shield...

Advice appreciated.

Two-Handed

This may be my favorite option. The obvious choice for a weapon is ElyR with RoL as a backup for HP purposes. Using marrowtaint with 12 AP I can get 3 attacks per round. The FS upgrade will add 60% (or 1.3^2?) damage of the weapon (or of the total AD?) and the specialization will add 50% of the original AD. This would put ElyR at 3-8*1.6= 4.8 (not sure how rounding works in this game) to 12.8 and add another 1.5-4 for a final value of 6.3-16.8 AD. So, it effectively doubles AD stat of ElyR when fully upgraded. Furthermore, it will have 25%*1.2= 30% AC. The bless actor puts the final value at 35% AC.

If I used ElyR it would give me +2 Max AP, putting me at 12 AP (3 attacks with marrowtaint) or 14 AP if I have level 2 combat speed (still only 3 attacks). This makes CS not very important unless I decide to place RoL on to gain HP. Am I missing something here? It seems like CS should only be upgraded when I have extra skill points after level ~45.

I would likely place a lot of skill points into AC and AD and increase my criticals with extra skill upgrades. This build would be very useful for grinding monsters...

Advice needed.

Dual-Wield

After reading the FS and specialization upgrades, I think the best option is to use 2 QS daggers if it's possible to obtain more than one, or to use 2 RoL's. My other option is to use the venomous dagger with flagstone's pride or 2x blackwater swords/daggers, but my ultimate goal would be 2 QS or RoL's.

With maxed DW upgrades I will have both weapons at 100% stats with a 50% boost in AC for both.
RoL will have 21*3%=63% AC with 2-12 AD and 3 attacks per turn.
QS will have 60% AC and 6 attacks per turn.
VD and FP will have 46% AC with 2-8 AD and 4 attacks per turn.
Blackwater swords will yield 150%-50%=100% AC with 6-14 AD and 3 attacks per turn (after considering the 1 AP penalty), but also effectively removes any chance for crits.
Blackwater daggers would offer 70% AC, 2 AD, and grant 4 attacks per turn (also removing crits).

From those I think blackwater items may be most useful if you are fighting monsters immune to crits, but RoL's and QS will be better when crits work.

Deciding Which to Pick

Assuming offense is all that matters, and assuming the account has at least 40 AD and 200% AC from base stats alone, I will try to see what the average DPH will be. I don't exactly know how AC and BC % is calculated since an enemy with 20% BC can still block attacks even if you account has over 120% AC, so I'm just going to assume all attacks land about 80% of the time... Please correct me if you know more about this game mechanic.

Sword and Shield with QS dagger: 240% AC, 0-40 AD, 6 attacks per turn. If the average damage is 20, the average damage per hit is 16. At 6 attacks per turn it will average 96 damage per round.

2H with ElyR: 235% AC (comparable to above), 6-56.8 AD, 3 attacks per turn. I would estimate the average damage to be 31.4, and the average DPH to be 25. At 3 attacks per round it will be an average of ~75 damage per round... seemingly worse than above, especially when you consider QS has a shield equipped for added defense bonus.

Dual Wield:
RoL: 263% AC (best yet), 2-52 AD, and 3 attacks per turn. My estimate for average damage is 27 with DPH being 21.6. That's an approximate average of 64.8 damage per round.

QS: this would be hands down the best option but I think you can only get 1 QS dagger. Let me know if you can obtain 2!

VD and FP: only good until obtaining RoL's

Blackwater swords: 300% AC, 6-54 AD, and 3 attacks per turn. I estimate the average damage to be 30, DPH at 24, and average damage per round at 72. So far this is the third best - only behind QS and ElyR.

Blackwater daggers: 270% AC, 2-42 AD, and 4 attacks per turn. With an estimated average damage being 22, DPH being 17.6, it ends up being an average damage per round at 70.4. This is slightly worse than the swords.

Conclusion: Ignoring criticals, quickstrike with a shield may be the best option. It seems ElyR is the second best option, which was my original favorite pick. For monsters immune to criticals, blackwater swords is a great option, but ElyR and QS may still be better. Overall, I think ElyR and QS with shield are the best picks, especially when criticals are considered. ElyR may be better than QS with crits, but I don't exactly know how this function works.

Other Information

I've heard building a blank account at level 15+ would help me decide which route to take, but I honestly don't want to spend the time grinding an account to level 45+ only to build another account from 15 to 45+ as another fighting style... I just want to stick to one.

My main choices for items would be:
Armor: serpent's hauberk or silk robe of valugha
Helm: Valugha's shimmering hat or Dark Protector
Glove: GoLF or leather gloves of attack (possibly fine gloves of swift attack)
Boot: Vacor's boots of attack or enhanced combat boots
Necklace: Marrowtaint
Ring: RoLS and RoLS

The sword and shield slot depend on the above discussion. I'm not sure what items are obtainable from certain areas so I just assumed the items I picked would be available to me.

I think I read the woodcutter's items are from remgard only, but I'll be picking marrowtaint instead. I think some places such as vilegard and prim offer items if you choose either the shadow or feygard, so IDK which I should go for (although I heard picking Blackwater over Prim is smart for the bed (not sure how important that is if you have enough healing items)).

I will most likely be siding with the shadow for most of the game for exp and unlocking purposes. If there is something I should know then please let me know.

Tell me what you think of my desired items and build type. I really don't know which direction to choose. Also, any tips about questing is appreciated. Lastly, I'd appreciate tips about skills such as evasion, mental/physical conditions, or anything else interesting.

Thank you all for the help.

[ForceClosed]

So I stumbled across some thread mentioning armor and weapon proficiency... I can't seem to find those options in game. Depending on how this works, it may drastically change my plans for armor and sway me away from 2x QS daggers.

Ignoring proficiencies I believe QSD dual wield offers the most attack power as your AD skill increases due to the attack rate. End game I could see QSD with like 100+ AD being amazing.

Any comments on this?

[JonLin]

dual wield with 2 blackwater poisoned daggers. Along with blackwater leather helm.

[rijackson741]

A lot of questions . I'll try to answer a few of them, in no particular order.

To determine the actual chance to hit, see these two threads:
http://andorstrail.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=4716
http://andorstrail.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4864
The second one contains a Dropbox link to a spreadsheet that shows how it's calculated. It also shows how to calculate the average damage per round. Note that the min and max damage are from everything: base damage, gear bonuses, and weapon.

You are correct that the QSD can't be bettered for average damage per round. You can get close with dual wielding other weapons, but only for monsters that are susceptible to critical hits. Dual wielding QSDs is not such a good idea though, because the block chance penalties stack, and are increased by the fighting style and weapon proficiency skills. There are some threads discussing this, which you can probably find by searching for "QSD dual wield". Dual wielding Blackwater poisoned daggers might work, because Blackwater Misery doesn't stack. I haven't tried it though. FYI, there is a better low attack cost weapon with criticals than either the Venomous Dagger or Flagstones Pride, but it's a lot harder to get. There are also better two handed weapons than ElyR, but you are not likely to get them early in the game.

Because of the way the game mechanics work, low attack cost weapons always do more damage per round. That could change, but in the current release low attack cost is the way to go.

The weapon and armor proficiency skills can only be accessed after you have completed certain quests.

Fighting style and proficiency skills are only applied to the base stats (so 50%, not 1.25^2).

Rounding is always down.

IMO, offense is never all that matters. You can't guarantee not getting hit, and some actor conditions are nasty. Some monsters hit hard too! Others have built very attack oriented builds though, and have been successful. With that in mind:

Evasion. Any monster that is next to you has a 15% base chance of attacking you, in every round (i.e. every 6 seconds). If you attempt to flee from a fight you have a 20% base chance of failing. Each level of Evasion reduces those chances by 5%. So with 3 levels of Evasion a monster that is next to you will never attack. With 4 levels, you will always flee successfully. However, many monsters move randomly, and if you are next to one it may move onto your square, in which case it will attack, regardless of how many levels of Evasion you have. A tip regarding that is to note than monsters never move on the diagonals, but you can. So if you have three levels of Evasion and attack on the diagonal (which is not always possible of course) you will always get the first attack.

[Duke]

I second what rijcackson states, he always gives good practical advice. Yes, you can have two quick strike daggers, but they do not do critical damage, I believe you have to have an effective critical chance to land crits, and the QS daggers do not have one. I like the dual wield because it offers so many different options and combinations. You can mix and match weapons with different actor conditions, like the blade of the defiler and flagstone's pride or dagger of the shadow priest. or a really fun combo is the chaosreaper and any other 4 AP weapon, like flagstone's pride or the Balanced steel sword...just lots of choices.
as for questing, most of them have two ways to go, so you will have to make choices, and some of them seem really tough, but as of now, no one knows what the end story is, so we don't know what the repercussions of our choices will mean. Just have fun with it.

Here is a great thread about character builds that you might find interesting, I know I did. There are comments on here from some of the best players that have posted to this forum. It gets really good on page 3, when Natepraw...introduces his suggestion.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4299

[ForceClosed]

Thanks to both of you! Your posts and links have given me much more insight to how I should build my character, and I've learned a lot of other useful info that would have taken me ages to realize on my own.

After messing up my "blank" account and thinking it through, I decided to try editing my save file to test out various upgrades and stats. This was pretty cool, seeing what I could expect at different levels, but it made me realize a lot of the fun of this game is building my account as I play... Having certain goals like Nate had with his glass cannon account is fun too, however, I think that's something one should do after playing 1-2 main accounts.

So, I am changing my plans of building an "elite end-game" account to building as I play through. I mean, what are the chances I'll actually reach level 150+ with my perfect build? I'd rather just play casually and potentially reach the 60's. Despite me placing 2 skill points into bark skin and 2 into corpse eater (which may be useless in the level 150+ range), I find them most fun for my current progression around level 30. Sometimes being efficient is the most fun for me. In this situation I'd rather just see where I end up.

Hope this message helps others in similar conundrums.