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Weapon proficiency skill and negative base block chance

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rijackson741
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Weapon proficiency skill and negative base block chance

Post by rijackson741 »

The dagger and one-handed sword proficiency skills both "increase the block chance by 30% of the item's base block chance". Some weapons have a negative block chance though, so how does it work then? For example, a Quickstrike dagger has a BC of -20%. So does that stay at -20%, or does it go to -26%, or to -14%? Based on the description I would assume the latter, but is that how it actually works?
Level:71, XP:6493739, PV:608, FQ:84
HP:210, AC:212, AD:58-77, AP:4, ECC:16%, CM:1.5, BC:188, DR:3
Gold: 237559 | RoLS:1, RoL:1, GoW:1, VSH:1, RoFLS:1, WoB:1
HH:1, WA:1, CS:2, Cl:1, IF:4, Ev:3, Re:2, WP:DA:1, WP:1S:1, WP:B:1, AP:L:1, FS:DW:2, S:DW:1
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Re: Weapon proficiency skill and negative base block chance

Post by Pyrizzle »

Equipping 2 QSDs will result in having your BC lowered by 40% (2 x 20%)

The proficiency skills do not effect negative numbers.
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Re: Weapon proficiency skill and negative base block chance

Post by Antison »

The negative BC are unaffected by those skills.
"A home without a beagle is just a house"
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Re: Weapon proficiency skill and negative base block chance

Post by rijackson741 »

Thanks for your replies. All is clear.

That's not what I would expect though. I would expect proficiency in a weapon skill to not only increase the positive aspects of the weapon, but also to decrease the negative aspects. A dagger may be a poor blocking weapon, but I would expect proficiency in the weapon to make it less poor. Just my opinion though :|
Level:71, XP:6493739, PV:608, FQ:84
HP:210, AC:212, AD:58-77, AP:4, ECC:16%, CM:1.5, BC:188, DR:3
Gold: 237559 | RoLS:1, RoL:1, GoW:1, VSH:1, RoFLS:1, WoB:1
HH:1, WA:1, CS:2, Cl:1, IF:4, Ev:3, Re:2, WP:DA:1, WP:1S:1, WP:B:1, AP:L:1, FS:DW:2, S:DW:1
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Re: Weapon proficiency skill and negative base block chance

Post by fiernaq »

rijackson741 wrote:A dagger may be a poor blocking weapon, but I would expect proficiency in the weapon to make it less poor. Just my opinion though :|
+1 Agreed
Level: 58, HP: 102, AC: 295%, AD: 46-56, AP: 2/12, BC: 35%, DR: 4
Gold: 75235 | RoLS: 0 RoL: 0 SRoV: 0 VSH: 0
Skills: IF1, Ev1, Ev2, Ev3, CE1, CS1, CS2, Re1, WA1, HH1, Cl1, HH2, DaggerPro1, LightArmorPro1, ShieldPro1, WA2, Cl2
Equipment: Enhanced Combat Helmet, Serpent's Hauberk, Marrowtaint, Quickstrike Dagger, Remgard Shield, Villain's Ring, Villain's Ring, Leather Gloves Of Attack, Enhanced Combat Boots
Last Updated: 02-Dec-2013
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Re: Weapon proficiency skill and negative base block chance

Post by Sarumar »

fiernaq wrote:
rijackson741 wrote:A dagger may be a poor blocking weapon, but I would expect proficiency in the weapon to make it less poor. Just my opinion though :|
+1 Agreed

i disagree, all of the weapons are not intended for parrying, etc..
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Lvl 313|XP 559721474|Gold 7965188|AP 3/12|AC 516|AD 161-175|ECC 48|CM 6|BC 311|HP 591|DR 2|RoLS 3|RoL 2|ElyR 2|ChaR 45|GoLF 3|ShaF 9|SRoV 28|VSH 13|GoW 1|WMC 1
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Re: Weapon proficiency skill and negative base block chance

Post by fiernaq »

Blackwater Dagger: 40% AC, 5% BC
DotSP: 20% AC, 20 Crit
QSD: 20% AC, -20% BC

Dagger Proficiency: For each skill level, increases attack chance when using daggers and shortswords by 30% of the item's base attack chance, increases block chance by 30% of the item's base block chance, and increases critical skill by 10% of the item's base critical skill.

Wielding one of the above daggers at a time and gaining 1 point in Dagger Proficiency does the following to your stats:

BWD: 52% AC, 6% BC (gain of 12% AC and 1% BC for 13 total additional stats)
DotSP: 26% AC, 22 Crit (gain of 6% AC and 2 Crit for 8 total additional stats)
QSD: 26% AC, -20% BC (gain of 6% AC for 6 total additional stats)

Wielding one of the above daggers at a time and gaining 3 points in Dagger Proficiency does the following to your stats:

BWD: 76% AC, 9% BC (gain of 36% AC and 4% BC for 40 total additional stats)
DotSP: 38% AC, 26 Crit (gain of 18% AC and 6 Crit for 24 total additional stats)
QSD: 38% AC, -20% BC (gain of 18% AC for 18 total additional stats)

Conclusion: Dagger Proficiency helps some weapons more than it helps others.
Level: 58, HP: 102, AC: 295%, AD: 46-56, AP: 2/12, BC: 35%, DR: 4
Gold: 75235 | RoLS: 0 RoL: 0 SRoV: 0 VSH: 0
Skills: IF1, Ev1, Ev2, Ev3, CE1, CS1, CS2, Re1, WA1, HH1, Cl1, HH2, DaggerPro1, LightArmorPro1, ShieldPro1, WA2, Cl2
Equipment: Enhanced Combat Helmet, Serpent's Hauberk, Marrowtaint, Quickstrike Dagger, Remgard Shield, Villain's Ring, Villain's Ring, Leather Gloves Of Attack, Enhanced Combat Boots
Last Updated: 02-Dec-2013
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Re: Weapon proficiency skill and negative base block chance

Post by Pyrizzle »

fiernaq wrote:Blackwater Dagger: 40% AC, 5% BC
DotSP: 20% AC, 20 Crit
QSD: 20% AC, -20% BC

Dagger Proficiency: For each skill level, increases attack chance when using daggers and shortswords by 30% of the item's base attack chance, increases block chance by 30% of the item's base block chance, and increases critical skill by 10% of the item's base critical skill.

Wielding one of the above daggers at a time and gaining 1 point in Dagger Proficiency does the following to your stats:

BWD: 52% AC, 6% BC (gain of 12% AC and 1% BC for 13 total additional stats)
DotSP: 26% AC, 22 Crit (gain of 6% AC and 2 Crit for 8 total additional stats)
QSD: 26% AC, -20% BC (gain of 6% AC for 6 total additional stats)

Wielding one of the above daggers at a time and gaining 3 points in Dagger Proficiency does the following to your stats:

BWD: 76% AC, 9% BC (gain of 36% AC and 4% BC for 40 total additional stats)
DotSP: 38% AC, 26 Crit (gain of 18% AC and 6 Crit for 24 total additional stats)
QSD: 38% AC, -20% BC (gain of 18% AC for 18 total additional stats)

Conclusion: Dagger Proficiency helps some weapons more than it helps others.
+1 great post and examples!

The Blackwater Daggers are my favorite weapon to duel wield!!!
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Re: Weapon proficiency skill and negative base block chance

Post by Zukero »

Sure, but 1% AC is not worth 1% BC which is not worth 1 Crit.
I liked the old idea of comparing them by level up value (5 AC == 3 BC), but it doesn't quite work for crits...
I guess it really depends on the builds.

I'm dual wielding DotSP (respawn bug, I took advantage, and I am not ashamed), and reaaaally crit-oriented (see my stats), but so far, the dagger prof was not as interesting as the "more crit" skill.
Now that I have 50% ECC, i moved to better crits. Once I'll have 4 points in better crits, I might move to dagger prof.
Lvl: 78, XP: 8622632, Gold: 271542, RoLS: 1, ElyR: -, RoL: -, ChaR: 1, GoLF: 1, ShaF: 1, SRoV: 1, VSH: 1, WMC: 1, GoW: 1
HP: 71, AC: 301%, AD: 38-47, AP: 3, ECC: 50%, CM: 3.75, BC: 101%, DR: 2
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fiernaq
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Re: Weapon proficiency skill and negative base block chance

Post by fiernaq »

The numbers are just a demonstration. I agree, the values aren't 1:1 in every case but I think the point still remains which is that with items having static values and skills having percentage multipliers you wind up with a case of skills helping items with the most stats the most. QSD is a good example of a weapon that I would consider to be at least on par with the Blackwater Dagger if not better but throw a skill such as Dagger Proficiency at it and you'll see the item with more stats pulling an easy victory even if the weapon itself isn't all that much better.
Level: 58, HP: 102, AC: 295%, AD: 46-56, AP: 2/12, BC: 35%, DR: 4
Gold: 75235 | RoLS: 0 RoL: 0 SRoV: 0 VSH: 0
Skills: IF1, Ev1, Ev2, Ev3, CE1, CS1, CS2, Re1, WA1, HH1, Cl1, HH2, DaggerPro1, LightArmorPro1, ShieldPro1, WA2, Cl2
Equipment: Enhanced Combat Helmet, Serpent's Hauberk, Marrowtaint, Quickstrike Dagger, Remgard Shield, Villain's Ring, Villain's Ring, Leather Gloves Of Attack, Enhanced Combat Boots
Last Updated: 02-Dec-2013
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