Hard Hit

A place for general discussion about the content and gameplay of Andor's Trail.

What should Hard Hit do?

Lower Max (0-1 damage)
0
No votes
Unchanged (0-2 damage)
2
5%
Higher Max (0-3 damage)
1
2%
Previous Version (1-1 damage)
2
5%
Higher Base (1-2 damage)
6
14%
Higher Base and Max (1-3 damage)
11
26%
Equal Base (2-2 damage)
10
24%
Much Higher (2-3 damage)
6
14%
Beast (3-3 damage)
4
10%
Other (Please post below)
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 42

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fiernaq
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Hard Hit

Post by fiernaq » Thu Dec 12, 2013 11:27 am

As of 0.7.0, Hard Hit is apparently 0-2 Damage instead of 1-1 Damage like it used to be. I'll try to add some math here later but for now I just wanted to find out what other people thought about this and whether or not a change should even be considered. Go ahead and just vote if that's all you want to do but I'd love to hear some detailed comments on your reasons as well.

Changelog for 0.7.0
Changelog for 0.7.0 wrote:Change hard hit to 0-2 dmg instead of 1-1.
Level: 58, HP: 102, AC: 295%, AD: 46-56, AP: 2/12, BC: 35%, DR: 4
Gold: 75235 | RoLS: 0 RoL: 0 SRoV: 0 VSH: 0
Skills: IF1, Ev1, Ev2, Ev3, CE1, CS1, CS2, Re1, WA1, HH1, Cl1, HH2, DaggerPro1, LightArmorPro1, ShieldPro1, WA2, Cl2
Equipment: Enhanced Combat Helmet, Serpent's Hauberk, Marrowtaint, Quickstrike Dagger, Remgard Shield, Villain's Ring, Villain's Ring, Leather Gloves Of Attack, Enhanced Combat Boots
Last Updated: 02-Dec-2013

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Zukero
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Re: Hard Hit

Post by Zukero » Thu Dec 12, 2013 12:12 pm

IMHO, Hard Hit was indeed underpowered as a skill, compared to what you get with the AC skill, the BC skill, and the level up bonuses.

Having the basic damage oriented skill introduce uncertainty is not a good idea for me. Some players really like to have sure-damage shots, without randomness. So while we could have another skill that boosts max AD (say, each level gives -1 min AD & +3 max AD), the base one should have the same min & max bonus.

Hence, my vote for 2-2. And these days, mourning Mandela, it's a good thing to think about Desmond Tutu.... (pardon the baaaad pun).
Lvl: 78, XP: 8622632, Gold: 271542, RoLS: 1, ElyR: -, RoL: -, ChaR: 1, GoLF: 1, ShaF: 1, SRoV: 1, VSH: 1, WMC: 1, GoW: 1
HP: 71, AC: 301%, AD: 38-47, AP: 3, ECC: 50%, CM: 3.75, BC: 101%, DR: 2

Sarumar
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Re: Hard Hit

Post by Sarumar » Thu Dec 12, 2013 3:59 pm

IMO current HH is worst than original
Sarumar
..dansing left foot polka with Hirathil

Lvl 313|XP 559721474|Gold 7965188|AP 3/12|AC 516|AD 161-175|ECC 48|CM 6|BC 311|HP 591|DR 2|RoLS 3|RoL 2|ElyR 2|ChaR 45|GoLF 3|ShaF 9|SRoV 28|VSH 13|GoW 1|WMC 1

astynax27
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android_version: 4.0

Re: Hard Hit

Post by astynax27 » Thu Dec 12, 2013 6:23 pm

I put a point in hard hit as my third skill point, and now wish that I hadn't. It would be better if it was the minium that was increased IMO. At least having 1 pt in HH will help me get cleave.

I wish there was a skill point charcter that would let you reset points for a fee.
Level: 19, XP: 133808, Gold: 7868
HP: 45, AC: 150%, AD: 20-27, AP: 4, ECC: -, CM: -, BC: 46%, DR: 0
RoLS: 0, ElyR: 0, RoL: 0, ChaR: 0, GoLF: 0, ShaF: 0, SRoV: 0, VSH: 0, WMC: 0, GoW: 0

Covenant
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Re: Hard Hit

Post by Covenant » Thu Dec 12, 2013 6:25 pm

AD +1 on level up already brings your min up. So,one could argue that the v0.70 change is appropriate: it focuses on the max as a counter balance. Having said that, we all want a more powerful character, which means more max+min AD to guarantee a better damage infliction on each hit.

So, my vote has come in at restoring the Hard Hit to 1+1. Now that we have such a good variety of style, proficiency and specialisation skills, there lots of other ways to being out AD up anyway, so a better Hard Hit would make it too easy to have have High AD character.

Sorry folks, I know many of you will disagree with me.
Covenant 4.0 | Level:223 | Dual Wield: 2 x Rapier of Lifesteal | Dark Protector | Serpent's Hauberk | Marrowtaint | 2 x Ring of Lesser Shadow | Troublemaker's Gloves | Enhanced Combat Boots

Sarumar
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Re: Hard Hit

Post by Sarumar » Thu Dec 12, 2013 6:31 pm

astynax27 wrote:I put a point in hard hit as my third skill point, and now wish that I hadn't. It would be better if it was the minium that was increased IMO. At least having 1 pt in HH will help me get cleave.

I wish there was a skill point charcter that would let you reset points for a fee.
Don'n worry, now you only neet to take weapon accyracy and after that you can pick Cleave


good hunting
Sarumar
..dansing left foot polka with Hirathil

Lvl 313|XP 559721474|Gold 7965188|AP 3/12|AC 516|AD 161-175|ECC 48|CM 6|BC 311|HP 591|DR 2|RoLS 3|RoL 2|ElyR 2|ChaR 45|GoLF 3|ShaF 9|SRoV 28|VSH 13|GoW 1|WMC 1

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fiernaq
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Re: Hard Hit

Post by fiernaq » Thu Dec 12, 2013 6:57 pm

I actually voted for Higher Base and Max (1-3 damage). If you take a look at skills, level ups, and gear, you'll notice that there really isn't a whole lot of variation in damage. Even maxed out, most players have a max AD that isn't far off from their min AD. I do want at least 1 min damage from HH so that I still feel like I'm gaining something and in order to bring the skill more in line with Dodge and Weapon Accuracy I think it also needs 1 more max damage.

I could also go for the 2-2 damage version but I feel as though so much of our damage is already guaranteed that doing this just gives us even more set-in-stone damage. While I would like 2-2 damage, I don't think it would add to my enjoyment of the game. It would just make me even more powerful. 1-3 damage could actually be fun and make me still consider what skill points to invest in.
Level: 58, HP: 102, AC: 295%, AD: 46-56, AP: 2/12, BC: 35%, DR: 4
Gold: 75235 | RoLS: 0 RoL: 0 SRoV: 0 VSH: 0
Skills: IF1, Ev1, Ev2, Ev3, CE1, CS1, CS2, Re1, WA1, HH1, Cl1, HH2, DaggerPro1, LightArmorPro1, ShieldPro1, WA2, Cl2
Equipment: Enhanced Combat Helmet, Serpent's Hauberk, Marrowtaint, Quickstrike Dagger, Remgard Shield, Villain's Ring, Villain's Ring, Leather Gloves Of Attack, Enhanced Combat Boots
Last Updated: 02-Dec-2013

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rijackson741
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Re: Hard Hit

Post by rijackson741 » Thu Dec 12, 2013 10:17 pm

Despite what some peoples perceptions seen to be, on average there is no difference between the original 1-1 and the current 0-2. In either case, the average damage from one level of HH is 1. I also think HH is not as underpowered as some other appear to think. At least, if it is then the fighting styles are also underpowered. We had a discussion about dual wield vs HH in another thread (sorry, I can't find the thread though), and concluded that dual wield was only better when critical hits are taken into account.

I voted to increase it slightly, to 1-2, but anything more than that and it will be overpowered for sure.
Level: 66, XP: 5249821, HP: 204, AC: 255, AD: 50-59, AP: 3, ECC: 25%, CM: 3, BC: 133, DR: 2
Gold: 212015 | RoLS: 1, RoL: 1, GoW: 1, VSH: 1, RoFLS: 1
HH: 1, WA: 1, CS: 2, IF: 4, Ev: 3, Re: 2, WP:DA: 1, WP:1S: 1, AP:L: 1, FS:DW: 2, S:DW: 1
SR

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fiernaq
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Re: Hard Hit

Post by fiernaq » Thu Dec 12, 2013 10:50 pm

When you're fighting a monster, average damage is meaningless. Actual damage matters. Therefore in each individual fight, 0-2 is going to be very different from 1-1. Overall, if you look at the sum of all your encounters, then yes, your damage will average out the same. But that doesn't matter when you hit a target that has 23 HP left for 22 damage and then your turn ends and the monster hits you and you die.
Level: 58, HP: 102, AC: 295%, AD: 46-56, AP: 2/12, BC: 35%, DR: 4
Gold: 75235 | RoLS: 0 RoL: 0 SRoV: 0 VSH: 0
Skills: IF1, Ev1, Ev2, Ev3, CE1, CS1, CS2, Re1, WA1, HH1, Cl1, HH2, DaggerPro1, LightArmorPro1, ShieldPro1, WA2, Cl2
Equipment: Enhanced Combat Helmet, Serpent's Hauberk, Marrowtaint, Quickstrike Dagger, Remgard Shield, Villain's Ring, Villain's Ring, Leather Gloves Of Attack, Enhanced Combat Boots
Last Updated: 02-Dec-2013

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rijackson741
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Re: Hard Hit

Post by rijackson741 » Fri Dec 13, 2013 1:51 am

fiernaq wrote:When you're fighting a monster, average damage is meaningless. Actual damage matters.
I disagree, because in AT there is always a range for AD, and what matters is AD vs. monster BC, which varies. With HH 0-2 you effectively get an additional 0-2 damage, all with equal probability. So 1/3 of the time it results in the same damage as HH 1-1. Another 1/3 of the time you may fail to kill a monster by 1HP that you would have killed with AD 1-1. The flip side of that coin though is that the remaining 1/3 of the time you may kill a monster that you would have failed to kill by 1HP with AD 1-1. So which is better?
Level: 66, XP: 5249821, HP: 204, AC: 255, AD: 50-59, AP: 3, ECC: 25%, CM: 3, BC: 133, DR: 2
Gold: 212015 | RoLS: 1, RoL: 1, GoW: 1, VSH: 1, RoFLS: 1
HH: 1, WA: 1, CS: 2, IF: 4, Ev: 3, Re: 2, WP:DA: 1, WP:1S: 1, AP:L: 1, FS:DW: 2, S:DW: 1
SR

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