Why the disparity?

A place for general discussion about the content and gameplay of Andor's Trail.
Tomcat
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Re: Why the disparity?

Post by Tomcat » Fri Aug 05, 2016 8:49 pm

http://andorstrail.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4096

http://andorstrail.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2379

These are a couple of old threads that discuss this issue and possible approaches to fixing it.
Norbert
Lvl:52 XP:2597576 AP:12 HP:124 AC:282 AD:30-42 CHS:27 CM:2.0 ECC:18% BC:132 DR:2
Skills: CS:2 IF:2 Ev:3 Rg:1 DgPro:1 1HPro:2 LtAPro:2 FS-DW:2 Sp-DW:1
Equip: FP BSS JoF RoP PRoB SrpHbk GoLF EnhCH EnhCB
Other: DotSP VD GoW FB TG RoD+6 Oegyth:6

BethelAbba
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Re: Why the disparity?

Post by BethelAbba » Sat Aug 06, 2016 6:29 am

Tomcat wrote: In the meantime, more level ups on dam will make your game easier to play.

I know that the first 10 -15 levels are the easiest for grabbing, so I generally use those first 10('ish) to focus on damage.... and then as the levels become further and further apart, I start moving out towards AC / BC. At the moment, I am pushing level 32 and trying to grab as much blocking as I can so that I can survive against the spiders I know I'll have to face soon. Figure by the time I hit 40, I should be sufficiently stacked in AC / BC that I should survive a dual attack of spiders long enough to take them both down.
Alsa - Lvl:60, HP:174 AC:230%, AD:27-34 BC:174%, DR:4 BM used: 12 (Lodars)
Most Kills: Shdw Garg Mstr:3700(+3281 trnrs)
Gold:313,705 | HoF: 1 ChaR: 2
WA: 2, HH: 2, Clv: 2, IF: 3, Re: 3, MF: 2, DP: 2, LAP: 1, HAP: 1

BethelAbba
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Re: Why the disparity?

Post by BethelAbba » Sat Aug 06, 2016 6:31 am

Tomcat wrote:
Zukero wrote:We are well aware of this, and there are plans to overhaul the combat system and UI, just not in the short term. I target v0.8 for these. Who knows when in time that will be...
There is a thread from awhile back that discusses the current problem and some possible new approaches. Unfortunately, it was right before the game creator stepped away, and development slowed to a crawl. Find the thread, and see if you have ideas to add.

Tomcat, any chance you know where that thread might be? I'd love the chance to read through it. My time is limited, so searching for it ... not a chance this week. It would really help, thanks.
Alsa - Lvl:60, HP:174 AC:230%, AD:27-34 BC:174%, DR:4 BM used: 12 (Lodars)
Most Kills: Shdw Garg Mstr:3700(+3281 trnrs)
Gold:313,705 | HoF: 1 ChaR: 2
WA: 2, HH: 2, Clv: 2, IF: 3, Re: 3, MF: 2, DP: 2, LAP: 1, HAP: 1

BethelAbba
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Re: Why the disparity?

Post by BethelAbba » Sat Aug 06, 2016 6:33 am

Tomcat wrote:http://andorstrail.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4096

http://andorstrail.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2379

These are a couple of old threads that discuss this issue and possible approaches to fixing it.

Ummmm.... Tomcat --- Looks like you beat me to the punch. Please disregard my previous comment, and thanks greatly for this bit of look up, I honestly look forward to spending a little time (when able) reading through them.
Alsa - Lvl:60, HP:174 AC:230%, AD:27-34 BC:174%, DR:4 BM used: 12 (Lodars)
Most Kills: Shdw Garg Mstr:3700(+3281 trnrs)
Gold:313,705 | HoF: 1 ChaR: 2
WA: 2, HH: 2, Clv: 2, IF: 3, Re: 3, MF: 2, DP: 2, LAP: 1, HAP: 1

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Voom
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Re: Why the disparity?

Post by Voom » Fri Aug 12, 2016 2:20 am

BethelAbba wrote:In the end, the limitation of action points simply will drive you in the same direction every time. That means you are essentially building the same thing every time you play, regardless of what you want your character to be. The illusion of choice that the Charwood quest presents you (Falothen and Fayvara's skill building) giving false hope to you that you can be whatever you want to be..... how sad.
The direction AT drives me is to Dagger of the Shadow Priests. Hits 4 times when AP is maxed and it gives an immense CC and 3.0 CM. Unfortunately, DotSP loses effectiveness at
Lodar's Cave
. Because of this players usually restart their journey with a QSD. I have decided to do something different: Gutsplitter or Skullcrusher. These weapons will give you a max of 2 hits but don't rely on CC too much with massive damage. It is satisfying to do 40 damage in one hit with a crit in the 90's.

If this is the given scenario,

Base AD 10, Equipment AD 10, Weapon AD 30, 2 attacks per round. Max damage per round is 100
Base AD 10, Equipment AD 10, Weapon AD 10, 4 attacks per round. Max damage per round is 120

then to have the weapon w/ high AD be balanced, you would have to increase its AD by 10 (to 40). Therefore, both weapons would offer a max damage per round at 120. But this is a simple fix. It is MUCH more difficult when you try to rank weapons by all their attributes, including AC, BC, CC, CM, AD, AP, and some other factors. That's why I used ATCS to find out how much in-game currency was placed on 1 of each attribute (cost of 1 min AD = x^1.23). The more the AD the weapon has, the exponentially more it is worth. It works this way with most attributes. DR is not exponential for example. I graph everything too. In this way you can theoretically rank every weapon and other piece of equipment in the game. AND, theoretically, you can discover equipment combo is worth the most. This complication is why we can't just balance the current equipment, but we have to replace the entire perception of equipment.
Voomster Lvl 23 |HP 52 |AC 173% |AD 17-52 |ECC 20% |CM 3.0 |BC 61% |DR 2 Build 2/3221/0

Voomboy Retired at 41 and is reading The Fey of Feygard
Voom Retired at 46 and took up translating

BethelAbba
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Re: Why the disparity?

Post by BethelAbba » Tue Aug 16, 2016 3:53 am

You know, I was thinking about this over the weekend, and there is a simple solution to all of this which actually would make weapons damage account for more than merely eye-candy.

Instead of giving you +1 to damage per level (as chosen) --- give 10% of base weapon damage increased per level (as chosen).

This means a dagger, at 1-4, after 10 of these picks, becomes 2-8.... but a massive great axe, at 6-13 now becomes 12-26. You still have the limitation of AP, but a dagger with 4 hits now does 32 max.... while that same great axe now does a potential of 52. After 20 of those picks, the dagger does 48 (max points in a 4 hit attack) while the great axe now does a MASSIVE 78 (max points in 2 attacks)

If you simply adjust the application of damage bonus to a percentage --- the whole game balances back out and people can actually build characters based on their desire (Paladin, Hulk, assassin, Rogue, or ranger) and the actual bonus that Falothen and Fayvara offer.... really are bonuses indeed.

Thoughts?
Alsa - Lvl:60, HP:174 AC:230%, AD:27-34 BC:174%, DR:4 BM used: 12 (Lodars)
Most Kills: Shdw Garg Mstr:3700(+3281 trnrs)
Gold:313,705 | HoF: 1 ChaR: 2
WA: 2, HH: 2, Clv: 2, IF: 3, Re: 3, MF: 2, DP: 2, LAP: 1, HAP: 1

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Firefly84
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Re: Why the disparity?

Post by Firefly84 » Tue Aug 16, 2016 4:28 am

You forgot that some weapons (daggers) don't have any base damage points and bare / monk build neither.
Your idea is good but then there has to be some adjusting to all weapons and bare/monk build.
Firefly
Lvl: 114, PV: 497, FQ: 63
RoLS: 2, ElyR: 1, RoL: 2, HoF: 0, ChaR: 1, GoLF: 1, ShaF: 4, SRoV: 6, VSH: 3, WMC: 1, GoW: 1, BD: 1
DP: 0, X: 0, M: 1, BoGt: 1, SotA: 0, RofLS: 1
HP: 505, AC: 262, AD: 89-105, AP: 4 each, ECC: 12, CM: -, BC: 156, DR: 4

Tomcat
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Re: Why the disparity?

Post by Tomcat » Tue Aug 16, 2016 5:32 am

The percentage increase idea is one of the good ones brought up before, yes. I'm pretty sure that the intent is still there to revamp the combat system someday, but adding content seems to be still the bigger priority.

And yes, any change in system will likely mean changing weapon stats etc across the board.
Norbert
Lvl:52 XP:2597576 AP:12 HP:124 AC:282 AD:30-42 CHS:27 CM:2.0 ECC:18% BC:132 DR:2
Skills: CS:2 IF:2 Ev:3 Rg:1 DgPro:1 1HPro:2 LtAPro:2 FS-DW:2 Sp-DW:1
Equip: FP BSS JoF RoP PRoB SrpHbk GoLF EnhCH EnhCB
Other: DotSP VD GoW FB TG RoD+6 Oegyth:6

BethelAbba
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Re: Why the disparity?

Post by BethelAbba » Tue Aug 16, 2016 3:09 pm

Voom wrote:The direction AT drives me is to Dagger of the Shadow Priests. Hits 4 times when AP is maxed and it gives an immense CC and 3.0 CM. Unfortunately, DotSP loses effectiveness at
Lodar's Cave
.

Actually, that's not the only place where DotSP loses it's sting.
It also blows chunks at Brimhaven Cave against the Allaceph and Vaeregh, both of which are immune to Critical hits.
That is why I keep a back up weapon handy at all times, just in case I need that little bit of .....
Extra damage without Critical hits..... Barbed Dagger & Reinforced Steel Gloves & Sturdy Leather Cuirass --- albeit the latter bites you in the a$$ for increasing attack cost 1AP....
Those extra-special beauties -- Ring of Shadow Priests & Rapier of Life Steal.... but I still haven't gotten them yet to pair them off together... give me a few more days.
I do understand where you're aiming at... but for the moment DotSP really do a sweet job of gutting Maonit effectively.
Alsa - Lvl:60, HP:174 AC:230%, AD:27-34 BC:174%, DR:4 BM used: 12 (Lodars)
Most Kills: Shdw Garg Mstr:3700(+3281 trnrs)
Gold:313,705 | HoF: 1 ChaR: 2
WA: 2, HH: 2, Clv: 2, IF: 3, Re: 3, MF: 2, DP: 2, LAP: 1, HAP: 1

Tomcat
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Re: Why the disparity?

Post by Tomcat » Tue Aug 16, 2016 8:48 pm

Quick strike dagger is what I find to be the best backup to DotSP for crit immune areas. With Combat Speed 2, you get 6 swings instead of 4, which helps make up for the loss of crit damage. Or three swings and then step back, if you are underpowered.
Norbert
Lvl:52 XP:2597576 AP:12 HP:124 AC:282 AD:30-42 CHS:27 CM:2.0 ECC:18% BC:132 DR:2
Skills: CS:2 IF:2 Ev:3 Rg:1 DgPro:1 1HPro:2 LtAPro:2 FS-DW:2 Sp-DW:1
Equip: FP BSS JoF RoP PRoB SrpHbk GoLF EnhCH EnhCB
Other: DotSP VD GoW FB TG RoD+6 Oegyth:6

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