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A different way to determine which items are best

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Kashim
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A different way to determine which items are best

Post by Kashim »

I realize that most veteran players have already figured a lot of stuff like this out, but I figured I'd post something for newer players that might help them if they actually manage to read this.
One of the interesting things about AT is that it allows you to boost your main combat stats directly during any given level up. Because of this, you can use "1 level" as a very good measure of determining which items are better than others. Some of these will come as surprises.

The system I use is simple: you can get any of 4 stats during a level. Either +5 Attack Chance(AC), +1 Attack Damage(AD), +5 Hit Points(HP), +3 Block Chance(BC). So when I determine an item's quality, I measure it in levels.
Then there are the "unlevelable skills". These include Damage Resistance(DR), Critical Skill(CS), and various Status Effects

Following is full of spoilers. I am going to show which items in each category are best by this measure. I am not going into weapons. That's a treasure trove of different effects, and requires considering AP, which I won't do here much.

Rings:
The best obviously is going to be the Ring of Lesser Shadow, which comes in at 12.167 levels plus 6 CS, plus a Regen effect (that is awesome)
The surprise here is the comparison of the Villain's Ring Versus the Ring of the Protector:
The Villain's ring pulls in a very solid 10.3 levels. Well over every other ring, except the Ring of the Protector, that edges it out with 10.767 levels. I had always thought the Villain's ring was better, but the extra block chance is a lot of levels.
It is worth noting that the damage rings look really good, but with only 6 levels max, they don't even compare.
Boots:
You'll notice that other than the rings, the level totals tend to drop a lot. Your rings are by far your most important piece of gear for boosting your effective level (your actual level plus the levels added by your equipment). Your boots are comparably not very important.

The best boots level wise are the Enhanced Combat Boots, which giving 11BC and 7AC have a level total of just over 5.
Other boots worth considering:
The Bar Brawler's boots come in with only 2.5 levels, but have that unlevelable boost to critical chance.
The Boots of the Guardian come in even worse with 2.33 levels, but have the unlevelable Damage Resistnace (I choose these for myself).
The Coward's Boots might apply once you get very high level. Though only .67 levels, -1 to move chance combined with other equipment can be really neat to mess with.
Gloves:
Gloves are often a double-edged sword. A lot of the gloves that people use early on are actually 0 sum gloves that reduce your block chance so far they don't actually help you overall at all. Further, there aren't really any good gloves. Most gloves come in at remarkably low level totals.
The technical best level wise:
Heavy Plated Gloves have a level total of 6.2. These don't look like the best offhand, but that damage boost is a big boost.

Other Gloves worth considering:
Arulir Skin Gloves/Chainmail Mittens: Coming in at only 1.6 levels, but having that extra damage resistance is a big deal.
Troublemaker's gloves: A total of 2.6, plus 4 critical skill which is unlevelable. Also just a solid pair of gloves.
Worn Plated Gloves: These are a really special case. They are one of only 2 pieces of armor that can inflict status effects on your target. Though they only have a paltry 1.5 levels, they're also only competing against the other gloves. However, the 20% chance at "Dazed" is hard to quantify. On the one hand, it's unlikely that any given opponent will end up dazed, since most things die in 5 strikes. On the other hand, anything that DOES get Dazed is going to be MUCH easier to kill. Instead of thinking of this as -40BC for the target, think of it as +40AC for you, since it balances the same way. I usually equip these when I'm in a place where my enemies tend to be hard to hit, and take multiple hits to kill. On a Plague Walker, it can be a big difference.
Amulets:
Look, this isn't really worth discussing. The best amulets are the best because of the -1AP. Marrowtaint is obviously way better than the JoF, in fact about 6 levels better. The difference between wearing gloves and not. If you really want the 2 DR amulet, it's not bad, but that still can't be level quantified this way.
Helms:
Helms are tricky. The best, by far, has a HUGE drop because of a status effect that it gives the wearer.
The Enhanced Combat Helmet is 3.4 levels.
The Dark Protector is the best at 3.6, and also has a damage resistance to boot, but requires that you do the quest for it.
The Blackwater Leather Cap is by FAR the best at a staggering 8 levels. Unfortunately, if it is the only BWM gear you have equipped, you take the horrific 10 level drop (in just AC, not to mention the other debuffs). So obviously you want to use this if you are using other BWM gear, but not if you aren't.
Other Helms worth noting:
The Woodcutter's hat is hilarious, at -1.67, but gives a little bit of critical skill, which some people swear is worth it
Valugha's Shimmering Hat is a mixed bag. It actually totals out to pretty close to -1 level, but includes a movespeed drop, which is potentially big.
If you can't get any of these, the Remgard Combat Helmet is also 3.6, but has a nasty -5 to critical skill. If you don't critical, it could work for you.
Shileds:
Shields are ALWAYS a mixed bag. Pretty much every one reduces your AC.
The best one level wise is the Strong Wooden Tower Shield at approx 3.47.
Others Shields to consider:
The Wooden Defender comes in at 3.07, very similar to the Tower shield, but you also trade critical for Damage Resistance. If you don't critical, this can be a big win.
The Remgard Combat shield also gets 3.07, and gets the Damage Resistance without the critical drop, but requires that you side with Remgard and miss the 6 levels on the Marrowtaint. Really a hard choice.
Armor:
The biggest decision saved for last. Armors are hard to quantify a lot of the time, as they can offer a LOT of different stats. I'm not going to offer up any that have an AP penalty because for most people that's an immediate disqualifier.
The Lightweight Splint mail caps out the field at 10.27. A very solid set of armor with good bonuses all around and even a 6 point critical boost.

Other Armors to consider:
The Serpent's Hauberk caps it out at 8.67, and also has the 2 DR and critical bonuses. Pretty widely considered the best armor there.
The Remgard Chain is 6.9 levels, which is really good.
The Blackwater Leather armor comes in at 8.3, but again has the problem that the cap had above.
The Silk Robe of Valugha only has 4.3, but has that -1 move cost, which is really hard to find. It ties with the Villain's leather armor for overall quality, but the leather gives a crit skill that the robe doesn't, making it better.
I disqualified the Shadowstalker above for the AP penalty. If you are set up so you don't care about 2AP (somehow?) then the status effects that this fires off are awesome, especially combined with the worn plated gloves above. These two can really mess up your enemy. However, if you've got this armor, you've already defeated what I think is the hardest enemy in the game, so...
I have too many characters to list them, so I'll just list my most important:
Template Flux
Lvl: 1 XP:56034
L&E: RoLS: 2 ElyR: 1 RoL: 2 BD: 1
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Voom
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Re: A different way to determine which items are best

Post by Voom »

I really like your creativity. This is an interesting way to rank gear, save weapons.
Believe it or not I have tried multiple variations of rankings of all types of equipment and believe there is only one way to effectively rank equipment:
Don't.
That might be harsh, but every attempt at ranking every type of stat of equipment will always end up being an arbitrary estimating mess, especially considering AP and status effects. Don't worry, this is a sign of a well-thought out game; one that looks superficially simple, but entirely more complex when considering equipment, fighting styles, wholesome builds, general skills, proficiency skills, story-line decisions, etc.

The closest you can get to ranking equipment is using the AT Content Studio and graphing the in-game shop values for individual stats and effects. Caution: I've tried and it's hard (most stats grow exponentially in value when stacked; for example, 1 AD costs 1 gold and 2 AD costs 2.5 gold). Technically, it is possible to rank equipment this way. BUT, shop values are inherently arbitrary as well. Which I'm generally ok with b/c you have to start somewhere. If you want more info on the ATCS and stat values based on shop prices just let me know.

Btw, according to the rank I made the BEST weapon in the game is...
... eh, I forgot
just kidding, it's Xul'viir
Last edited by Voom on Sun Oct 02, 2016 2:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Kashim
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Re: A different way to determine which items are best

Post by Kashim »

Yeah, I knew it wouldn't be perfect, but a different idea. The funky reverse parabolic effect that AC actually has on your actual chance to hit is so dependent upon the opponent's block chance that trying to categorize it is virtually meaningless. Not to mention the difficulty when adding in critical skill and trying to convert it to effective critical chance causes further pain. This method was just meant to be something to the effect of: My level 8 character fights like a level 40 naked character give or take.
The core idea here wasn't to actually be able to fully categorize items, but to try to inform people that things like the Ring of Damage +6 were probably not the best way to go. This doesn't categorize all stats, and I wasn't really trying to, I was just trying to provide a better relative measure that everyone from level 2+ can relate to.
It was also not until after I wrote this post that I learned that you can ignore the AP costs on heavy armor if you're willing to put enough skill points into it.
The other purpose of the post: I learned a heck of a lot while writing it. I never realized how far down you could get your move-cost when fleeing. literally, the coward's boots + SRoV + VSH + the right potion drops it to 2, which a good player could use to run a heavy gauntlet without even fighting it. I am seriously going to consider making a runner at some point.
I have too many characters to list them, so I'll just list my most important:
Template Flux
Lvl: 1 XP:56034
L&E: RoLS: 2 ElyR: 1 RoL: 2 BD: 1
Duke
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Re: A different way to determine which items are best

Post by Duke »

I actually did this same thing myself Kashim. It made a lot of sense to me, but then, I like spreadsheets.
Lvl78 XP9403007 Gold 248643 AP3 HP139 AC350 AD42-59 BC97 DR1
SP:D MC3 BC CS2 QL4 IF MF EB DW2
Rols1Rol2Elyr1Char1Golf1Shaf0Srov1Vsh1
Ozzy
lvl:47 HP114 AC254 AD27-37 BC112
SP:WA HH CS(2) CL CE IF(2) Reg
Rols1Rol0ElyR0Char2Shaf1Golf1Srov1Vsh1
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Re: A different way to determine which items are best

Post by Voom »

I have never heard of runner class, love it.
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Re: A different way to determine which items are best

Post by rijackson741 »

Interesting point about move cost. An alternative to the SRoV is the Villain's Leather Armor. I'll also note that the potion in question gives you an additional 2AP, so with a move cost of only 2AP you could still use all your "normal" AP for attacks, and then try to flee. I think all 4 levels of Evasion would also be necessary for this type of build, because then your chance to flee would be 100%. Even without the potion,
which you can't get until you have basically finished all the existing game content
a move cost of 3AP with a 4AP weapon and either JoF or Marrowtaint would allow for 3 attacks per round, and then flee. I use hit and flee tactics a lot, but currently I've have nothing that reduces my move cost, so I get 2 attacks per round and then a chance to flee (I have Ev3, so my chance of fleeing is 95%). Getting an additional attack per round (a 50% increase in damage potential), or with the potion an additional 2 attacks per round (doubling my current damage potential!) might be worth the loss in other stats from the change in armor.
Buying tons of potions of haste from Lodar might also be a good way to spend some of my excess gold.
Level:71, XP:6493739, PV:608, FQ:84
HP:210, AC:212, AD:58-77, AP:4, ECC:16%, CM:1.5, BC:188, DR:3
Gold: 237559 | RoLS:1, RoL:1, GoW:1, VSH:1, RoFLS:1, WoB:1
HH:1, WA:1, CS:2, Cl:1, IF:4, Ev:3, Re:2, WP:DA:1, WP:1S:1, WP:B:1, AP:L:1, FS:DW:2, S:DW:1
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Re: A different way to determine which items are best

Post by Pringle »

I am not a big fan of the running except on two occasions. 1.When I am going through mobs of weaklings. 2.The fight with Hira'zinn. For some reason I am also a really big fan of the heavy armor equipment. I like the idea of not taking a lot of damage especially from the hirathril. I am working on a new toon where I am going to invest most stats in ac bc til I can Max out bark skin then pour into ad . With this I will probably go with light armor proficiency. I think the DR gear is going to help with my choices of what I equip on him. Saving my skill points except for IF when available until the Charwood rescue when I make my final decision on where I want my character's skill tree layout to be. Just in case I change my mind.
"Sit awhile and listen" - Deckard Cain
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