Are You All In?

A place for general discussion about the content and gameplay of Andor's Trail.
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Growler
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Re: Are You All In?

Post by Growler » Sat Oct 07, 2017 5:52 pm

Voom wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2017 4:37 pm
..I think the more useful weapons (imo) are valuable b/c of their BC more so than their AC.

..DR or Crits is harder to value in comparison to other stats but using common-sense I would come to the conclusion that 1 DR is more valuable than 1 AC or 1 Critical Skill.
I had a similar thought re weapon values being significantly related to BC -- especially once I looked more closely at the various Fighting skills..which increase not just AC, but BC to the same extent/percentage, and since BC seems more valuable (nearly double?) on a per point basis (relative to AC), then the various weapon-based Fighting Skills are more valuable in terms of enhancing BC of any given weapon.

Re DR point value vs AC/BC point values, it seems that the game generally strongly favors DR value.. hard to know quite how to measure/evaluate, but I'd guess that each DR point (reduction) is worth roughly 10~15 AC & 6~9 BC.

Why I'd like to see DR (1/3 or 1/2 point) offered as an option with each level-up.
And maybe make HP automatically increase every level-up by 0~2 points (tho favoring 0 or 1 more than 2, with odds of say, 40/40/20%).
Opposition is True Friendship. As your Once & Future Friend, I oppose that notion.
~~~
Black is White, White is Black, 1984 is Back.

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Growler
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Re: Are You All In?

Post by Growler » Sat Oct 07, 2017 6:00 pm

Kashim wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2017 4:40 pm
I might think about introducing items that have a non-fixed DR. Say, a helmet that has 0-2DR (rolled against when you get hit, like damage, representing the different parts of the helmet (0 for "oh god, he got me in the eye", 2 for "clang, the sword bounces off your head")). ...
That's a good idea.. so you cant count on getting an exact amount of DR each time..have it vary a bit, which seems naturalistic according to the situation.

Like your various points, Kashim! Even if I don't try that sort of build, it's still interesting to read & think about.

Btw, why do you say this?
"3) You have to complete at least the first part of Charwood early to make this work..."
Opposition is True Friendship. As your Once & Future Friend, I oppose that notion.
~~~
Black is White, White is Black, 1984 is Back.

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Voom
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Re: Are You All In?

Post by Voom » Sat Oct 07, 2017 8:26 pm

One could use a few ways to compare the inherent value of each stat. The most common way is by using level-ups where 5 HP = 5 AC = 1 AD = 3 BC. The second way stats are compared is through level-ups & skill points together. This way is more holistic because it factors in a player's desired build direction. When I first started AT I made the mistake of equating 4 level-ups of AC with 1 skill point of Weapon Accuracy, but when you think about it skills at the top of the list are just stepping-stones to skills below them (in other words, there is a trade-off b/w more AC and Cleave or more BC and Bark Skin, etc.). This way of comparing stats is not simple whatsoever but it gives you a bigger picture.

I could not tell you how much 1 DR is exactly worth in terms of AC or BC, but that is actually a good thing for the AT community. It invokes debate and creativity.

The last way to try and compare stats is by using the ATCS and checking the gold value assign to 1 of each stat or condition of equipment. I have been informed that there might be significant imbalances in those values as well. Regardless, using this way might be additionally complex due to the fact that scaling a stat like AC increases its value exponentially at a different rate than let's say BC, CS, or HP. And there is a good reason it is like that as well.

All-in-all, the best way is to just use common-sense. Getting too incremental with stats will only draw attention away from the story of AT.
Voomster Lvl 23 |HP 52 |AC 173% |AD 17-52 |ECC 20% |CM 3.0 |BC 61% |DR 2 Build 2/3221/0

Voomboy Retired at 41 and is reading The Fey of Feygard
Voom Retired at 46 and took up translating

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Growler
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Re: Are You All In?

Post by Growler » Sun Oct 08, 2017 7:31 am

Good points, Voom. The relative values are ultimately subjective, tho we grind away with our equations & esoterica -- which *is* part of the fun.
Still, it is curious how the values (# of points provided) for AC, AD & BC compare via Level-ups vs Skills. So I almost never used level-ups towards BC, since it appeared to be more optimal to take the 9 pts BC from the Dodge skill instead.
As you point out, however, those first few skills may be thought of more as stepping stones to higher-order skills.

The Gold value (apparently 'auto-assigned' from formula?) of many items does seem quite arbitrary sometimes, tho there must be some logic/method to the seeming madness..?

Regardless, it is up to each of us to assign our own values to the various attributes.
Now where did I put my common sense potion?? :?
Opposition is True Friendship. As your Once & Future Friend, I oppose that notion.
~~~
Black is White, White is Black, 1984 is Back.

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Voom
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Re: Are You All In?

Post by Voom » Sun Oct 08, 2017 11:06 pm

Common-sense potions. Love it!

I believe there were specific reasons for the gold value formulas. I can't enter into Oskar's mind to really know. Nevertheless, we can reasonably assume that there is a structure to it all. Theory-crafting is fun, definitely. But there are some real imbalances in the way some stats function within combat. Soon, we will have several great solutions on the table. As far as gold values are concerned, I wouldn't know where to start to fix those imbalances, but they will hardly affect combat or directly impact the effectiveness of equipment.
Voomster Lvl 23 |HP 52 |AC 173% |AD 17-52 |ECC 20% |CM 3.0 |BC 61% |DR 2 Build 2/3221/0

Voomboy Retired at 41 and is reading The Fey of Feygard
Voom Retired at 46 and took up translating

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Growler
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Re: Are You All In?

Post by Growler » Mon Oct 09, 2017 5:39 am

Who is this mysterious Oskar? Rakso..Sokar..Korsa..Akras?
Any lore re him/her?
They claim Oskar created the original game, then left--sans mortal explanation..Hmm.

You're right, the gold values don't really matter beyond a curiosity & perhaps occasional limits early on whilst gold is precious..so very precious. And now that I'm (finally!) seeing Lodar's potion prices..once again, gold seems rather precious!
But only because I'm greedy for multiple samples of all ;)
Opposition is True Friendship. As your Once & Future Friend, I oppose that notion.
~~~
Black is White, White is Black, 1984 is Back.

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Kashim
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Re: Are You All In?

Post by Kashim » Mon Oct 09, 2017 2:25 pm

Growler wrote:
Sat Oct 07, 2017 6:00 pm
Btw, why do you say this?
"3) You have to complete at least the first part of Charwood early to make this work..."
Because you need to get the extra 2 DR from the shield specialization. The first point is even free. This is one of the only 2 skills that give DR, and it isn't level or BC restricted.
If you do run with this build, you find out quickly that you have to get the DR up fast, because you are pretty weak until you get over 7 because of the number of levels you have spent on BC. Getting over 7 is trickier than it sounds; you can't go to Remgard to make up for it, because you are no where near strong enough yet. You haven't gone into the Green Maze to get the better armor, because you aren't strong enough yet. Usually, I end up going in an order something like this:
Hardened Leather Shirt -> Irogotu's Pendant -> Barkskin1 -> Wooden Defender and Necklace of the protector -> Shield proficiency 1&2 -> Chainmail Mittens -> Serpent's Hauberk -> Barkskin 2 -> 1 Jinxed Ring -> Suicide run to Remgard for Helm and Boots.
I have too many characters to list them, so I'll just list my most important:
Template Flux
Lvl: 1 XP:56034
L&E: RoLS: 2 ElyR: 1 RoL: 2

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Growler
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Re: Are You All In?

Post by Growler » Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:20 pm

Ah! Thanks..that's very helpful--incl the order you went through for attaining super-high DR.

I went with the 'Light Armor Proficiency' (for 'free'), and then later used a couple special crystals towards another weapon proficiency, thus didn't realize -- or catch -- that the Shield proficiency grants a pt of DR.

Now that I've got a couple more of those crystals, will use towards a Shield proficiency with commensurate DR point!

Btw, bet that 'suicide run to Remgard' is a bit easier on the return (with a couple more DR pts from Helm & Boots). ;)
Opposition is True Friendship. As your Once & Future Friend, I oppose that notion.
~~~
Black is White, White is Black, 1984 is Back.

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Kashim
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Re: Are You All In?

Post by Kashim » Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:42 pm

Growler wrote:
Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:20 pm
Btw, bet that 'suicide run to Remgard' is a bit easier on the return (with a couple more DR pts from Helm & Boots). ;)
"This is an extra special kind of "teleport". You remove all of your equipment, find an angry bear, and have him kick you so hard that you wake up 10 miles away."

I've only had one game where I ever made a return trip from Remgard.
I have too many characters to list them, so I'll just list my most important:
Template Flux
Lvl: 1 XP:56034
L&E: RoLS: 2 ElyR: 1 RoL: 2

BethelAbba
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Re: Are You All In?

Post by BethelAbba » Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:30 pm

I tend to go "all in" with my builds, seeking to accent the skill or attribute with my armor and weapons.
Vals - Lvl:54, XP:2877967, HP:132, AC:189%, AD:31-35, ECC:31%, CM:4.5, BC:110%, DR:2, BM Pot used: 590, Most Kills: Str Maonit Trl:962
Gold:158,875 | No extraordinary items :cry:
WA: 1, HH: 1, MC: 2, BC: 2, CS: 2, IF: 2, Re: 2, MF: 1, DP: 1, SP: 1

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