Dual wield

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nyktos
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Re: Dual wield

Post by nyktos » Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:43 pm

Urbain wrote:
Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:27 pm
(“You are using Bonetti’s defence against me, huh?”; “I thought it fitting considering the rocky terrain.”;

"Naturally, you must expect me to attack with Capoferro!"; “Naturally.

But I find that Thibault cancels out Capoferro.”; “Unless your enemy has studied his Agrippa!”

[does great big somersault] “Which I have!”) .
:lol: :lol: :lol:

"You killed my father, prepare to die!"
"Embrace the Shadow"

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[Lv: 60] [HP: 175] [AC: 361] [AD: 25-39] [BC: 75]
[Dual Wielding Swords] [Unarmored Fighting]

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Urbain
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Re: Dual wield

Post by Urbain » Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:40 pm

rijackson741 wrote:
Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:35 am
No. It is only from skills. You can have CS 2 to increase your available action points, and one necklace to decrease your attack cost. That's all.
Yep, already know of those ones. Dang. I was hoping. Maybe in a future release ;)
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Urbain
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Re: Dual wield

Post by Urbain » Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:42 pm

nyktos wrote:
Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:43 pm

:lol: :lol: :lol:

"You killed my father, prepare to die!"
"My name is Inigo Montoya..."
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Schmmiiirc
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Re: Dual wield

Post by Schmmiiirc » Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:45 pm

rijackson741 wrote:
Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:35 am
Urbain wrote:
Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:35 am
Are there any armor pieces that may help with CS?
No. It is only from skills. You can have CS 2 to increase your available action points, and one necklace to decrease your attack cost. That's all.
I can't help thinking that somehow we should get more swings with dual-wielding.

We've given up the defensive shield to have an offensive weapon in each hand and yet get the same number of swings as a one weapon/one shield character.

I'll concede that the AC gets a boost, but only at the expense of BC.
See the puppies scatter.

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Urbain
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Re: Dual wield

Post by Urbain » Wed Apr 19, 2017 5:12 pm

Schmmiiirc wrote:
Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:45 pm
rijackson741 wrote:
Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:35 am
Urbain wrote:
Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:35 am
Are there any armor pieces that may help with CS?
No. It is only from skills. You can have CS 2 to increase your available action points, and one necklace to decrease your attack cost. That's all.
I can't help thinking that somehow we should get more swings with dual-wielding.

We've given up the defensive shield to have an offensive weapon in each hand and yet get the same number of swings as a one weapon/one shield character.

I'll concede that the AC gets a boost, but only at the expense of BC.
Though we can get a defensive boost with the O-crystals if we train up on those defensive skills that I just can't remember what they are called. Anyway, you're right we are giving up something for the dual wield. All in the name of being the swaggering, blade wielding nightmare.
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rijackson741
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Re: Dual wield

Post by rijackson741 » Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:04 am

Schmmiiirc wrote:
Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:45 pm
I can't help thinking that somehow we should get more swings with dual-wielding.

We've given up the defensive shield to have an offensive weapon in each hand and yet get the same number of swings as a one weapon/one shield character.

I'll concede that the AC gets a boost, but only at the expense of BC.
You get the benefit of all the off-hand weapons stats, not just AC.

Two swings would be grossly over powered, because you would then get the benefits of not just the second weapon, but also your base AD, a second time.
Level: 64, XP: 4734786, HP: 196, AC: 246%, AD: 49-59, AP: 3, ECC: 25%, CM: 3, BC: 127%, DR: 2
Gold: 232355 | RoLS: 1, RoL: 1, GoW: 1
HH: 1, CS: 2, IF: 4, Ev: 3, Re: 2, WP:DA: 1, WP:1S: 1, AP:L: 1, FS:DW: 2, S:DW: 1
SR

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Schmmiiirc
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Re: Dual wield

Post by Schmmiiirc » Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:35 am

rijackson741 wrote:
Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:04 am
Schmmiiirc wrote:
Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:45 pm
I can't help thinking that somehow we should get more swings with dual-wielding.

We've given up the defensive shield to have an offensive weapon in each hand and yet get the same number of swings as a one weapon/one shield character.

I'll concede that the AC gets a boost, but only at the expense of BC.
You get the benefit of all the off-hand weapons stats, not just AC.

Two swings would be grossly over powered, because you would then get the benefits of not just the second weapon, but also your base AD, a second time.
I can see that in the game it might be considered overpowered but it would surely be more realistic.

I don't remember the last time I actually fought anyone, I was probably about 12 and it would have been with fists, not swords, but; with a sword in each hand I can hit an opponent twice with one movement of each arm, with only one sword and a shield, an attack with the shield is not going to do the same amount of damage.

I'm not really expecting anything to change, just chewing the fat.
See the puppies scatter.

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rijackson741
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Re: Dual wield

Post by rijackson741 » Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:27 pm

I don't think it would necessarily be more realistic. I believe dual wielding a sword and a dagger was not uncommon (or is that just in the movies?), but the dagger would be mainly used to parry your opponents blows. The game mechanics are not complex enough to represent the reality of fighting with two weapons, or even with a sword and a shield. A small shield with a boss would do a lot of damage if someone smashes it into your face
Level: 64, XP: 4734786, HP: 196, AC: 246%, AD: 49-59, AP: 3, ECC: 25%, CM: 3, BC: 127%, DR: 2
Gold: 232355 | RoLS: 1, RoL: 1, GoW: 1
HH: 1, CS: 2, IF: 4, Ev: 3, Re: 2, WP:DA: 1, WP:1S: 1, AP:L: 1, FS:DW: 2, S:DW: 1
SR

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Urbain
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Re: Dual wield

Post by Urbain » Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:04 pm

As many of us in the HEMA community study it, dual wielding offers all sorts of plays. Daggers aren't just used to parry as the main hand sword can be used for that while the dagger goes in for the strike. Both weapons can also be used to strike in quick succession; both weapons can parry at the same time to set up a strike for one, the other, or both. Heck, in our school we're taught to use two swords, sword and buckler, sword and cape (very cool), and two handed swords.

Anyway, I don't see the game mechanics getting much more detailed than what they are already at. Some things even need to be nerfed a bit to balance out the choices one can make. Does a two-handed heavy fighter always win against a fast side-sword wielding fighter? No, not at all. Is a sword better than a staff or an axe? Nope. Just different.

I think dual wield might be about right by my reading of it. I'll let you know more as I progress my character.
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Urbain
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Re: Dual wield

Post by Urbain » Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:55 pm

So my new character is up to lvl 18 in short order. I've already taken the AP boost, got the JoF, and am carrying a rapier and buckler. I'm prepping to head out to Blackwater and do the quests there. I'll post my stats tonight when I get home.
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