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Why are rings so powerful?

A place for general discussion about the content and gameplay of Andor's Trail.
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Kashim
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Why are rings so powerful?

Post by Kashim »

Has anyone else noticed that your rings are really the primary source of extra stats within your equipment set? How come I get twice as much block chance from my Protector's ring as I do from my helmet? Two protector's rings have as much block chance as your helmet, gloves, and boots combined usually. A pair of Villain's rings has more damage than all but the strongest weapons, and a pair of RoLS has almost as much average damage as a Brutal Club.

I guess my question is, was this something that was intended from the start, or did things just kind of work out this way? Is it planned to make the rest of the equipment eventually live up to all of the rings of doom, or is the game probably going to stay so "ring dominated"? The only items I see with sets of stats comparable to rings are some of the best armors, the ShadowStalker, Serpent's Hauberk, etc, but those are only available very late game. The best rings are available as soon as you can walk your way to the crossroads...

Personally, I'm of the opinion that if my rings can be enchanted so heavily that wearing one makes me that much better at combat, then it is most likely that other pieces of my equipment would likewise be capable of such, or even better.

I think we may want to look into moving some of the existing equipment to shops that are somewhat harder to access, particularly the Villain's Ring, Ring of the Protector, and Polished Ring of Backstabbing. They are the best of their kind right now, and they are accessible very early in the game compared to the best armors, helmets, boots, etc. I would also be in favor of moving the QSD to a different shop that was harder to access. Right now, it's a very quick gain for a low level character to get the JoF and the QSD early and strut around with their 5 attacks. I'd be a bigger fan of seeing items of this caliber in Remgard, or someplace else harder to get to. Also, moving these more powerful items to places later in the story means that players will experiment more with different builds, since they'll be more constantly upgrading rather than just buying the best possible right off the bat.

Thoughts from anyone else? Does anyone else really buy rings other than the best ones? I usually go from none->Tavern Brawler->Villain. The only reason I stop in the middle is because you only lose about 100 gold on the Tavern Brawler between buy and sell, and it lets you handle some of the tougher beetles and things very early. I'm just thinking I probably shouldn't be wearing the best rings in the game when I'm not even level 10 yet...
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Re: Why are rings so powerful?

Post by rijackson741 »

You make a very good point. I don't know how it ended up this way. I agree that moving them, and upgrading the low level armor to compensate, would be desirable, but we don't really have anywhere to move them to right now. We can't move them all to Remgard. There are other aspects of the game that also need rebalancing, but it won't happen for the next release. I've added this to my notes on the subject.

As far as the QSD goes, I have thought very hard about how to balance it, and I'm not sure it's possible. My personal inclination is therefore to remove it from all droplists. That would mean anyone that already has one can keep it (don't want to destroy anyone's build!), but there would be no weapons going forward with such a low attack cost.
Level:71, XP:6493739, PV:608, FQ:84
HP:210, AC:212, AD:58-77, AP:4, ECC:16%, CM:1.5, BC:188, DR:3
Gold: 237559 | RoLS:1, RoL:1, GoW:1, VSH:1, RoFLS:1, WoB:1
HH:1, WA:1, CS:2, Cl:1, IF:4, Ev:3, Re:2, WP:DA:1, WP:1S:1, WP:B:1, AP:L:1, FS:DW:2, S:DW:1
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Zukero
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Re: Why are rings so powerful?

Post by Zukero »

In the future, I'd like to change the combat system to 100 base AP, so we can add more variety to attack costs of weapons and have more flexibility to give AP bonuses to items and skills. That'll probably involve nerfing the JoF and the Marrowtaint to some degree. Maybe the CS skill too, but offering more levels of it.
Lvl: 78, XP: 8622632, Gold: 271542, RoLS: 1, ElyR: -, RoL: -, ChaR: 1, GoLF: 1, ShaF: 1, SRoV: 1, VSH: 1, WMC: 1, GoW: 1
HP: 71, AC: 301%, AD: 38-47, AP: 3, ECC: 50%, CM: 3.75, BC: 101%, DR: 2
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Kashim
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Re: Why are rings so powerful?

Post by Kashim »

That actually sounds wonderful, and I know what you mean about moving everything to Remgard. It already has a lot of super-powered equipment that is desirable upon arrival there.
The 100 AP would be a very interesting change. I've wondered about changing the system like that and providing more fine control, though I had thought about it in decimals, but increasing to 100 is a much better idea.
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Re: Why are rings so powerful?

Post by Tomcat »

BWM (divided between up and down) and the upcoming Stoutford area could also be good destinations to move things to, though they would both be easier to reach than Remgard.
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Lvl:52 XP:2597576 AP:12 HP:124 AC:282 AD:30-42 CHS:27 CM:2.0 ECC:18% BC:132 DR:2
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Re: Why are rings so powerful?

Post by Antison »

I am pretty sure that Oskar's original plan was to move these items around as the world grew. In fact, he did it at least once that I can remember. My point is that we need to remember that this game is fluid and nowhere near finished. I can see a massive shuffle of various shop inventories when the game gets it's next rebalancing.
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Re: Why are rings so powerful?

Post by nyktos »

Antison wrote: Thu May 11, 2017 12:07 am I am pretty sure that Oskar's original plan was to move these items around as the world grew. In fact, he did it at least once that I can remember. My point is that we need to remember that this game is fluid and nowhere near finished. I can see a massive shuffle of various shop inventories when the game gets it's next rebalancing.
Well said, Sir! :twisted:
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Re: Why are rings so powerful?

Post by Urbain »

nyktos wrote: Fri May 12, 2017 12:26 am
Antison wrote: Thu May 11, 2017 12:07 am I am pretty sure that Oskar's original plan was to move these items around as the world grew. In fact, he did it at least once that I can remember. My point is that we need to remember that this game is fluid and nowhere near finished. I can see a massive shuffle of various shop inventories when the game gets it's next rebalancing.
Well said, Sir! :twisted:
Indeed and a very good point. Some of these items are definitely too powerful for the levels at which they can be acquired. Moving them to new places that are tougher to get to and developing new items to go with them, like armor that is balanced with the power Of The Ring, along with the requisite quests, will make this game even better. :D
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Re: Why are rings so powerful?

Post by Duke »

Very good post and discussion. I"ll just throw out that those rings are expensive and take some serious grinding to be able to get. And Jewel of Fallhaven isn't cheap either. So, yes, they are close to the home base, but you gotta grind to get them. I do like the sound of boosting AP to 100 and seeing all that can happen with builds as a result.
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Re: Why are rings so powerful?

Post by rijackson741 »

Duke wrote: Sat May 13, 2017 12:51 am I"ll just throw out that those rings are expensive and take some serious grinding to be able to get. And Jewel of Fallhaven isn't cheap either. So, yes, they are close to the home base, but you gotta grind to get them.
That is an excellent point. Close to home does not necessarily mean easy to get early in the game.
Level:71, XP:6493739, PV:608, FQ:84
HP:210, AC:212, AD:58-77, AP:4, ECC:16%, CM:1.5, BC:188, DR:3
Gold: 237559 | RoLS:1, RoL:1, GoW:1, VSH:1, RoFLS:1, WoB:1
HH:1, WA:1, CS:2, Cl:1, IF:4, Ev:3, Re:2, WP:DA:1, WP:1S:1, WP:B:1, AP:L:1, FS:DW:2, S:DW:1
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