Permadeath (PD) - Who is doing it?

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rigao
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Re: Permadeath (PD) - Who is doing it?

Post by rigao »

Maybe in permadeath one has to invest more in HP to avoid criticals to be that decisive? Of course it is not optimal, but playing permadeath is not optimal.

I would want to know the first to challenge the graveyard with permadeath... that would be quite a ride.

CKork
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Re: Permadeath (PD) - Who is doing it?

Post by CKork »

Well, PD does need a lot of HP, and it is fine (in end game). But early game demands far too high HP due to criticals. Even investing level ups in HP AND get IF to lvl 2 at lvl 20 leaves you with FAR less than what you`d need. And you miss out on important points in AC and potentially dodge as well.

Please, play PD for some time, and I`m sure you`ll come to similar conclusion. Crits and HP are out of balance until you hit a relatively high level, and many things are off limits due to lack of survivability (maze, charwood, remgard).

My experience so far: more HP
Andor's "Vanilla" Bro
:ElyR x1:RolS x2:RoflS x1:RoL x2:HoF x1:ChaR x2:GoLF x1:ShaF x2:SRoV x1:VSH x3:WMC x1:GoW x2:BD x1:HS x2:
LVL 35 (+24 dmg, 2x IF, next to no quests & unique bosses, xp saved 2get2 lvl 80 straight)

Lacrom
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Re: Permadeath (PD) - Who is doing it?

Post by Lacrom »

I couldn't say it better tha you CKork !!! HP in early game is what we need. I might be a little easier with v0.7.11, because in the beta there is a new item much better than bread (some kind of biscuits which costs 6gold for 2*sustenance in 11 rounds).
Jean-Jacques Goldman
Lvl:87 XP:11866464 Gold:192699 RoLS:2 ElyR:1 RoL:2 HoF:1 RofLS:0 ChaR:1 GoLF:1 ShaF:1 SRoV:2 VSH:1 WMC:1 GoW:5 BD:1 HS:2
HP:175 AP:12 AP cost:4 AC:300 Ad:77-100 Bc:179 DR:3

CKork
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Re: Permadeath (PD) - Who is doing it?

Post by CKork »

Lacrom wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 9:24 am
I couldn't say it better tha you CKork !!! HP in early game is what we need. I might be a little easier with v0.7.11, because in the beta there is a new item much better than bread (some kind of biscuits which costs 6gold for 2*sustenance in 11 rounds).
Sounds like an interessanting item, and help to go for longer *in average*.
But (and there is a but), the 'getting one-shotted by crits' issue cannot be tackled with HP regeneration.
Andor's "Vanilla" Bro
:ElyR x1:RolS x2:RoflS x1:RoL x2:HoF x1:ChaR x2:GoLF x1:ShaF x2:SRoV x1:VSH x3:WMC x1:GoW x2:BD x1:HS x2:
LVL 35 (+24 dmg, 2x IF, next to no quests & unique bosses, xp saved 2get2 lvl 80 straight)

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rijackson741
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Re: Permadeath (PD) - Who is doing it?

Post by rijackson741 »

This is something that is difficult to balance. Removing the chance of a one-shot death would be good for permadeath, but it would unbalance the game when playing with infinite lives.
Level:69, XP:5961483, PV:514, FQ:66
HP:224, AC:247, AD:46-58, AP:3, ECC:23%, CM:3, BC:174, DR:3
Gold: 237559 | RoLS:1, RoL:1, GoW:1, VSH:1, RoFLS:1
HH:1, WA:1, CS:2, Cl:1, IF:4, Ev:3, Re:2, WP:DA:1, WP:1S:1, AP:L:1, FS:DW:2, S:DW:1

CKork
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Re: Permadeath (PD) - Who is doing it?

Post by CKork »

rijackson741 wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 10:48 pm
This is something that is difficult to balance. Removing the chance of a one-shot death would be good for permadeath, but it would unbalance the game when playing with infinite lives.
There is some truth to that.

And changing things for one mode is probably too much work to do and maintain over the years.

Just a funny thought.
What about a permanent actor condition (like in the mermaid quest) that is applied by mikhail when you first talk to him called fainting blessing of your father. Condition check in the Background for PD mode is true.

When the actor condition is true, change the critical multiplier / dmg formula to something like this:
Crit multiplier % applied for lvl 1 characters = 0%, linearily increasing until lvl 50 chatacter, when the 100% multiplier is applied.
End game, mobs would still be the evil beasts they are, but you'd get through the first levels way easier.
Don`t know if that's doable or feasable, but could also open up areas a little sooner for PD players.
Andor's "Vanilla" Bro
:ElyR x1:RolS x2:RoflS x1:RoL x2:HoF x1:ChaR x2:GoLF x1:ShaF x2:SRoV x1:VSH x3:WMC x1:GoW x2:BD x1:HS x2:
LVL 35 (+24 dmg, 2x IF, next to no quests & unique bosses, xp saved 2get2 lvl 80 straight)

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rijackson741
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Re: Permadeath (PD) - Who is doing it?

Post by rijackson741 »

How about in permadeath mode you always get 1HP for each level up, even without IF?
Level:69, XP:5961483, PV:514, FQ:66
HP:224, AC:247, AD:46-58, AP:3, ECC:23%, CM:3, BC:174, DR:3
Gold: 237559 | RoLS:1, RoL:1, GoW:1, VSH:1, RoFLS:1
HH:1, WA:1, CS:2, Cl:1, IF:4, Ev:3, Re:2, WP:DA:1, WP:1S:1, AP:L:1, FS:DW:2, S:DW:1

CKork
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Re: Permadeath (PD) - Who is doing it?

Post by CKork »

rijackson741 wrote:
Sat May 30, 2020 12:08 pm
How about in permadeath mode you always get 1HP for each level up, even without IF?
8-)
Still hard for the first levels, but worth a try ;) it could easily be adjusted to more or less, ifneeded
Andor's "Vanilla" Bro
:ElyR x1:RolS x2:RoflS x1:RoL x2:HoF x1:ChaR x2:GoLF x1:ShaF x2:SRoV x1:VSH x3:WMC x1:GoW x2:BD x1:HS x2:
LVL 35 (+24 dmg, 2x IF, next to no quests & unique bosses, xp saved 2get2 lvl 80 straight)

CKork
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Re: Permadeath (PD) - Who is doing it?

Post by CKork »

rijackson741 wrote:
Sat May 30, 2020 12:08 pm
How about in permadeath mode you always get 1HP for each level up, even without IF?
I have given this some thought.
While it is nice, and helps, it could be too mucb later on. 50 free hp at lvl 50, 80 at lvl 80, and so on.

In late game, there should be enough ways to mitigate the effect with equipment and skills.

How about a fixed number of HP for PD chatacters. Lets say, you start with 40 HP or 50 HP instead of 25.
It helps to get through the first levels, but doesn`t make you OP later on.
In my 15ish tries, I only managed to get passed lvl 8 twice!
It`s still a hell of a grind later to progress, and many things beng off-limits for a veeery long time, but surviving the very early lvls already would be a major improvement.
Andor's "Vanilla" Bro
:ElyR x1:RolS x2:RoflS x1:RoL x2:HoF x1:ChaR x2:GoLF x1:ShaF x2:SRoV x1:VSH x3:WMC x1:GoW x2:BD x1:HS x2:
LVL 35 (+24 dmg, 2x IF, next to no quests & unique bosses, xp saved 2get2 lvl 80 straight)

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DanielS
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Re: Permadeath (PD) - Who is doing it?

Post by DanielS »

(…)
How about a fixed number of HP for PD chatacters. Lets say, you start with 40 HP or 50 HP instead of 25.
(…)
More HP on the start that's good idea. IMO PD requires more HP and BC (defensive) build and that means more grinding on "easy" areas (with monsters which you can easily beat and give you small amount of XP points). You need much more time to complete quest, just because you can't get to some areas at the beginning of the game.

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