REMOVE : Increase health by +5 HP

A place for general discussion about the content and gameplay of Andor's Trail.

Do you want to REMOVE Increased health +5 HP?

Yes
2
11%
No
16
89%
 
Total votes: 18

CKork
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Re: REMOVE : Increase health by +5 HP

Post by CKork »

Way of the monk with sooner entry lvl could be interesting indeed.

OR:

What if you had to chose your combatstyle at lvl 1/beginning. Dual wield, sword and shield or wotm. Just like chosing a class.
Since you still can level the skills later and get the pther ones, it isn't going to stop anything else in the long run, but could add a little immersion from the beginning.

Plus, sonse you basically free up 1 skillpoint, that also plays towards osho's request.

If you want to look into skillpoint amounts:
I think every 4 levels is OK. 3 is totally OP and doing 2 every 7 levels or so drags it out too long.
Could imagine to stick with 1 every 4 levels, but add an additional one every 25 levels (2 to 3 for average gameplay extra, plus potentially 1 if you add the suggestion above. Should still be reasonable).

Alternatively, maybe you can earn 2 to 3 during the course of the main quest?
Andor's "Vanilla" Bro
:ElyR x1:RolS x2:RoflS x1:RoL x2:HoF x1:ChaR x2:GoLF x1:ShaF x2:SRoV x1:VSH x3:WMC x1:GoW x2:BD x1:HS x2:
LVL 35 (+24 dmg, 2x IF, next to no quests & unique bosses, xp saved 2get2 lvl 80 straight)
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Osho
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Re: REMOVE : Increase health by +5 HP

Post by Osho »

CKork wrote: Tue Nov 10, 2020 10:58 am Could imagine to stick with 1 every 4 levels, but add an additional one every 25 levels
Level 25? I think by level 25, the player has finished a significant number of quests already, assuming a natural course of progression irrespective of the build type.

Here's my suggestion:

1 SP every 4 levels as is
+
1 SP as a reward attached to some of the most challenging quests? For example: I have it in me (incl part 2 - the dark protector)? Of course, I am not asking for this specific quest but such difficult ones should offer reward in the form of 1 Skill point!

The developers should also use quests to offer Skill points, which involves a lot of challenges to justify the reward.

A perfect answer to those who are quick to raise the "overpowering" issues.
NO WAY they can complain now. Since the quests are open to the players anytime to approach and finish it. This also encourages the players to try difficult quests early for the Skill points - if they can face the challenges involved.

There should be more challenging quests in future with a Skill point as a bonus in addition to other rewards for finishing it! 👍
CKork
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Re: REMOVE : Increase health by +5 HP

Post by CKork »

I chose 25 deliberately. It's providing a little more variability. A handfull of skillpoints is already a HUGE benefit. The system is quite good already, but you need to be focused around your skill point choices. Having 3 to 4 free adds freedom for flavour touch without changing dynamics completely.
Also, until 30 and 45, you still have major lvl restricted skills missing, and 25 respects that and provides you basically 1 point per chatacter development 'leap'.

While I have a lot of sentiment for the skillnpoint by quest, it needs to be VERY selective, and again, should be spread throughout the game and not exceed a handful (spelling it out: max 5!)

And devinitely we should NOT get both, more points by quest AND by leveling.
Andor's "Vanilla" Bro
:ElyR x1:RolS x2:RoflS x1:RoL x2:HoF x1:ChaR x2:GoLF x1:ShaF x2:SRoV x1:VSH x3:WMC x1:GoW x2:BD x1:HS x2:
LVL 35 (+24 dmg, 2x IF, next to no quests & unique bosses, xp saved 2get2 lvl 80 straight)
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Osho
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Re: REMOVE : Increase health by +5 HP

Post by Osho »

CKork wrote: Tue Nov 10, 2020 12:31 pm While I have a lot of sentiment for the skillnpoint by quest, it needs to be VERY selective, and again, should be spread throughout the game and not exceed a handful (spelling it out: max 5!)
5 is too low.
Let's say, 1 SP per area (like Crossglen, Fallhaven, etc)

10 (or more) is perfect for the maximum number 👍

See. The problem with 1 SP every 4 levels is that many important skills are NOT available immediately. It requires additional skill points to finally able to USE those skills. I have strongly disliked the pre-conditions attached to such skills. Be it Cleave, Resistances, and others.

These conditions effectively make it very frustrating. And, the actual levels take more than 8 to 12, and some even take more than 12 to finally unlock the skills!

If the developers make the skills available as a single feature (1 SP for Cleave, Taunt, etc) to unlock then it wouldn't be a major issue.

To ask to spend skill points for unlocking the skills is illogical because any additional SKILL POINT should primarily improve your skills (similar to IF, which is perfectly designed). It shouldn't be wasted as a pre-condition to unlock a skill.

For example: Cleave

Please explain how is +12 AC (Weapon Accuracy) and +2 Damage (Hard hit) better than a player already having over +100 AC with 20-30 AD to be considered as an ELIGIBILITY criteria for having a durect shot at Cleave?

Had Cleave been associated with AC, AD directly then it'd have made sense.
Cleave Level 1 - 50AC, Max damage +10
.... and so on.

Some skills follow the right approach by directly linking it to player's combat statistics, while some are linked with skill points to finally have the skills.

The entire design of the skill system is inconsistent.
Soullessktty
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Re: REMOVE : Increase health by +5 HP

Post by Soullessktty »

I'd prefer a quest with hefty price to unlearn and free skill pts (can be repeated only for 2 times).
CKork
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Re: REMOVE : Increase health by +5 HP

Post by CKork »

Osho, those skills are not ment for regular play, but for people who want long term goals after finishing the game. 10+ skillpoints would change that intension completely.
One of the reasons why I personally suggest to be very limited with extra skillpoints.

But if you want to be OP and since you already asked about hex editors, why don't you just hex edit yourself another 100 levels on top, and then spend 25 more skillpoints on all you want? I think that is a better approach than changing the game significantly for everyone.
Andor's "Vanilla" Bro
:ElyR x1:RolS x2:RoflS x1:RoL x2:HoF x1:ChaR x2:GoLF x1:ShaF x2:SRoV x1:VSH x3:WMC x1:GoW x2:BD x1:HS x2:
LVL 35 (+24 dmg, 2x IF, next to no quests & unique bosses, xp saved 2get2 lvl 80 straight)
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Osho
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Re: REMOVE : Increase health by +5 HP

Post by Osho »

CKork wrote: Tue Nov 10, 2020 2:24 pm Osho, those skills are not ment for regular play, but for people who want long term goals after finishing the game.
That is the problem. I understand the reasons but not the approach. Why force the players to spend precious skill points more than once to UNLOCK any skill? There's a better way to simply link it to the player's combat statistics! Any additional skill point should improve the effectiveness of the skills which could be split in different levels based on the base criterias as requirements.
But if you want to be OP and since you already asked about hex editors, why don't you just hex edit yourself another 100 levels on top, and then spend 25 more skillpoints on all you want? I think that is a better approach than changing the game significantly for everyone.
I don't understand how to do it. Gobe through the entire thread on hex editing. I need more detailed steps to properly understand it. Could you please message me the exact steps directly? The developers won't allow an open discussion on the forum.
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rijackson741
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Re: REMOVE : Increase health by +5 HP

Post by rijackson741 »

You can't learn to run until you have learned to walk. So some skills require you to learn others first. That will not change.
Level:69, XP:6038672, PV:555, FQ:77
HP:224, AC:216, AD:47-59, AP:3, ECC:27%, CM:3, BC:174, DR:3
Gold: 237559 | RoLS:1, RoL:1, GoW:1, VSH:1, RoFLS:1, WoB:1
HH:1, WA:1, CS:2, Cl:1, IF:4, Ev:3, Re:2, WP:DA:1, WP:1S:1, AP:L:1, FS:DW:2, S:DW:1
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Osho
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Re: REMOVE : Increase health by +5 HP

Post by Osho »

rijackson741 wrote: Tue Nov 10, 2020 10:47 pm You can't learn to run until you have learned to walk. So some skills require you to learn others first. That will not change.
That's fine.

But, what doesn't make sense is when the skills overlook players existing combat statistics as the base criteria for eligibilty.

How can addition of +12, +2 to existing AC of 100 and 20-30 AD respectively, makes the player so learned that it is finally able to understand how to restore AP using Cleave?

If Cleave takes into account the players combat statistics, the same goal can be accomplished without making the players waste 2 extra skill points, over and above the experience points went into building the characters AC and Attack damage.

All I am requesting is to relook the skill system and change the criterias for making it available to the players, keeping the same objective of having the players more experienced in specific areas of combat statistics and skills, but streamlined and reasonable!
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