Extraordinary and legendary items

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Voom
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Re: Extraordinary and legendary items

Post by Voom » Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:34 am

Kashim, I read your ideas. I like the second one better. As a matter of fact, I think [+2AP, on hit, on source] is better than my DR idea. The fact that it is "on hit" means that it applies +2AP every successful hit so there is no need to explain it. Assuming you have the JoF and 2 CS, then the tree would look like this (in pic form):
Capture.PNG
Since there are 21 possible outcomes, it looks like both 5 hits and 4 hits are equally likely as they are each 9 total outcomes. 2 outcomes are 6 hits and 1 outcome is 3 hits. Realistically though....
3 hits has a 12.5% chance
4 hits has a 56.25% chance
5 hits has a 28.125% chance
6 hits has a 3.125% chance
.... IF we assume a hit/miss is 50/50. Of course, AC and enemy BC will vary. Essentially, the higher AC is relative to BC the more the above chances favor higher hits. If it was 75/25, then 6 hits would have a 35.6% chance and 3 hits would have a 1.56% chance.

Lesson: if ElyR has this actor condition, then AC is certainly your best friend. Chance for an extra hit or two... not bad. Not to mention an advantage in flee tactics. Redeemer it definitely is.
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Voomster Lvl 23 |HP 52 |AC 173% |AD 17-52 |ECC 20% |CM 3.0 |BC 61% |DR 2 Build 2/3221/0

Voomboy Retired at 41 and is reading The Fey of Feygard
Voom Retired at 46 and took up translating

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Re: Extraordinary and legendary items

Post by Zukero » Wed Aug 09, 2017 6:26 am

That would be like an embedded Taunt level 2, but on every hit, not kill. That's strong.
Lvl: 78, XP: 8622632, Gold: 271542, RoLS: 1, ElyR: -, RoL: -, ChaR: 1, GoLF: 1, ShaF: 1, SRoV: 1, VSH: 1, WMC: 1, GoW: 1
HP: 71, AC: 301%, AD: 38-47, AP: 3, ECC: 50%, CM: 3.75, BC: 101%, DR: 2

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Re: Extraordinary and legendary items

Post by rijackson741 » Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:59 am

Zukero wrote:
Wed Aug 09, 2017 6:26 am
That would be like an embedded Taunt level 2, but on every hit, not kill. That's strong.
Not quite, because some monsters have only 1 attack per round, and Taunt is useless against them. This would never be useless. So it's better than an embedded Taunt level 2.

It is a good idea, but to implement it we would need to be able to apply an actor condition for "current round" as opposed to "one round".
Level: 64, XP: 4734786, HP: 196, AC: 246%, AD: 49-59, AP: 3, ECC: 25%, CM: 3, BC: 127%, DR: 2
Gold: 232355 | RoLS: 1, RoL: 1, GoW: 1
HH: 1, CS: 2, IF: 4, Ev: 3, Re: 2, WP:DA: 1, WP:1S: 1, AP:L: 1, FS:DW: 2, S:DW: 1
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Re: Extraordinary and legendary items

Post by Zukero » Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:35 am

Not really. This could be part of the standard hit effect of the weapon, like the HP bonus of the RoL.
Lvl: 78, XP: 8622632, Gold: 271542, RoLS: 1, ElyR: -, RoL: -, ChaR: 1, GoLF: 1, ShaF: 1, SRoV: 1, VSH: 1, WMC: 1, GoW: 1
HP: 71, AC: 301%, AD: 38-47, AP: 3, ECC: 50%, CM: 3.75, BC: 101%, DR: 2

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Re: Extraordinary and legendary items

Post by rijackson741 » Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:54 am

That's true. I didn't realize it, but it's even possible now. I don't there is currently any item that has the effect of increasing AP though.

It could be toned down in power by making it 1-2 AP per hit. That still makes 6 attacks per round possible, but at a much reduced chance.
Level: 64, XP: 4734786, HP: 196, AC: 246%, AD: 49-59, AP: 3, ECC: 25%, CM: 3, BC: 127%, DR: 2
Gold: 232355 | RoLS: 1, RoL: 1, GoW: 1
HH: 1, CS: 2, IF: 4, Ev: 3, Re: 2, WP:DA: 1, WP:1S: 1, AP:L: 1, FS:DW: 2, S:DW: 1
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Re: Extraordinary and legendary items

Post by Kashim » Wed Aug 09, 2017 1:35 pm

Either way, it still makes an ElyR a very usable two-handed sword. By far the best (two handed sword) in the game as far as swings, but not particularly broken vs. other weapons, as its other stats aren't terribly impressive.
It wouldn't benefit all that much from the specializations, since it doesn't have a lot of base damage. In fact, since you'd only gain an average of 1.65 damage from the fighting style perks, they wouldn't even be worth taking vs. a level of hard-hit. The Specialization would bring it up to an even 6 damage added, with an additional +5 AC, but that's still pretty sketchy, but using 3 skill points for 6 damage and +5 AC isn't worth it in my mind. I'd rather dump the 3 points into hard hit, and build up to some other, better, skill.

Still though, I would happily build a character around it, and that's what counts isn't it?

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Re: Extraordinary and legendary items

Post by Voom » Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:23 pm

Apparently, I wasn't thinking straight when I made the chart. I realized I didn't calculate the successful hits properly. Here is the fixed one:
Capture.PNG
The probabilities are as follows for hit/miss = 50/50:
-------With Bless-------------------------------Without Bless
0 hits has a 12.5% chance---------------0 hits has a 12.5% chance
1 hits has a 18.8% chance---------------1 hits has a 37.5% chance
2 hits has a 37.5% chance---------------2 hits has a 37.5% chance
3 hits has a 12.5% chance---------------3 hits has a 12.5% chance
4 hits has a 15.6% chance
5 hits has a 1.6% chance
6 hits has a 1.6% chance

Again, AC is the ElyR's best friend, so...
The probabilities are as follows for hit/miss = 75/25:
-------With Bless-------------------------------Without Bless
0 hits has a 1.6% chance----------------0 hits has a 1.6% chance
1 hits has a 3.5% chance----------------1 hits has a 14.1% chance
2 hits has a 21.1% chance---------------2 hits has a 42.2% chance
3 hits has a 10.5% chance---------------3 hits has a 42.2% chance
4 hits has a 39.6% chance
5 hits has a 5.9% chance
6 hits has a 17.8% chance

Results without Bless:
With hit/miss = 50/50, ElyR has 0.0% chance for 4+ hits per round.
With hit/miss = 75/25, ElyR has 0.0% chance for 4+ hits per round.

Results with Bless:
With hit/miss = 50/50, ElyR has 18.8% chance for 4+ hits per round.
With hit/miss = 75/25, ElyR has 63.3% chance for 4+ hits per round.

I would say that it is very good, but not overpowered.
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Voomster Lvl 23 |HP 52 |AC 173% |AD 17-52 |ECC 20% |CM 3.0 |BC 61% |DR 2 Build 2/3221/0

Voomboy Retired at 41 and is reading The Fey of Feygard
Voom Retired at 46 and took up translating

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Re: Extraordinary and legendary items

Post by rijackson741 » Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:14 pm

I'm surprised it changes that much going from AC-BC=0 to AC-BC=50, but I'll take your word for it. Given that though, I think it could start to look overpowered when AC-BC=100 or higher.
Level: 64, XP: 4734786, HP: 196, AC: 246%, AD: 49-59, AP: 3, ECC: 25%, CM: 3, BC: 127%, DR: 2
Gold: 232355 | RoLS: 1, RoL: 1, GoW: 1
HH: 1, CS: 2, IF: 4, Ev: 3, Re: 2, WP:DA: 1, WP:1S: 1, AP:L: 1, FS:DW: 2, S:DW: 1
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Re: Extraordinary and legendary items

Post by Voom » Thu Aug 10, 2017 7:31 pm

Well, here is an easy example: for a char to miss every shot is only 1 out of 21 possibilities. Same with landing every shot (6 hits). BUT, with 50/50 (which is a 50% chance for a hit or a miss) getting 0 hits does not have 1/21 chance to happen. Using statistics, to get 0 hits it would be .5 x .5 x .5 x 1 possibility = 12.5%. If we assume the char has enough AC to have a 75% chance to hit (hence 75/25), then getting 0 hits would be .25 x .25 x .25 x 1 possibility = 1.6%.

With 50/50, getting 4 hits would be .5 x .5 x .5 x .5 x .5 x 5 possibilities = 15.6%. With 75/25, getting 4 hits would be .75 x .75 x .75 x .75 x .25 x 5 possibilities = 39.6%.
Voomster Lvl 23 |HP 52 |AC 173% |AD 17-52 |ECC 20% |CM 3.0 |BC 61% |DR 2 Build 2/3221/0

Voomboy Retired at 41 and is reading The Fey of Feygard
Voom Retired at 46 and took up translating

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Re: Extraordinary and legendary items

Post by Zukero » Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:15 pm

That's when you consider the effective chance to hit. The AC-BC result is fed to some arctan based formula to get the ECH. 75% ECH isn't uncommon anyway.
Lvl: 78, XP: 8622632, Gold: 271542, RoLS: 1, ElyR: -, RoL: -, ChaR: 1, GoLF: 1, ShaF: 1, SRoV: 1, VSH: 1, WMC: 1, GoW: 1
HP: 71, AC: 301%, AD: 38-47, AP: 3, ECC: 50%, CM: 3.75, BC: 101%, DR: 2

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