Putting the RoLS debate to rest! Answer the poll after...

A place for general discussion about the content and gameplay of Andor's Trail.

Even though I've seen Jeff's data, I'm still going to try to get me a RoLS.

True
17
47%
False
2
6%
Have it, but wouldn't have wasted time had I known this.
2
6%
Have it, Jeff is stupid, I'd do it again.
10
28%
Never intended to, thought it was a waste.
5
14%
 
Total votes: 36

Chest_Rockfield
Posts: 530
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2011 1:05 am
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Location: Impeached former President of the Too cool for a RoLS Club. ;)

Putting the RoLS debate to rest! Answer the poll after...

Post by Chest_Rockfield » Mon Jul 11, 2011 3:44 pm

Some people are completely in love with their RoLS, or obsessed with getting one, but is hunting for a RoLS a good idea? I did the leg work for you guys and I'm going to present my findings and draw some conclusions. Tell me if you think there are any flaws in my design or conclusions and/or draw your own conclusions. Finally, answer the poll at the top.

Design:
Throughout the experiment, I was a level 50 with 229% AC, 24-28 AD, 51% BC. Before each grind, I spent approximately 30 minutes determining the best way to maximize the amount of experience I could gain in each test area. At the beginning of the experiment, in both grinding areas, I started with full life and completely equal stats, using all of the same equipment, and completely spawned monsters. In both areas, I ground for exactly 30 minutes by stopwatch. Before each grind, I wrote down the amount of experience, gold, and all pertinent items to the grinding area that I currently had in my bag. At each grind, I killed as many monsters as I could for the entirety of the 30 minutes with the methodology I had devised prior to the test.

Methodology:
In the RoLS area, I started at the entrance of the building, swept through and killed all of the trainers and masters, glanced back to see if any did a "quick respawn" and killed those, then went through the gargoyle area and killed all of them while the trainers and masters (T&M) were respawning so I could maximize the amount of experience and gold I could get in the grinding time allotted instead of just sitting. During the 30 minute practice run, I determined how far I could go before T&M would respawn so I wouldn't be wasting time having (T&M) alive instead of waiting to respawn.
In the Blackwater Mountain Cabin area (BWMC) I started at the exit to the cabin and killed all of the monsters on the 3 levels and stairs, occasionally skipping a Young Aulaeth if he was running around at the top of the screen on a respawn while I was killing the others, then went to the cabin to respawn all of the monsters at once to do it all again. At the very end of the 30 minutes, I did not have enough time to make it from the top of the stairs to the next screen back to the bed and back out to a monster, so I went to the next screen to kill a few more there before time expired.

Results:
In the RoLS area I gained:
50 Ruby Gem
9 Polished Gem
32 Regular Potion
2097 Gold
But used 5 Bonemeal potions
Total Gold value for all goods: $3234
and 19,499 experience

In the BWMC area I gained:
13 Minor Potion of Health
19 Regular Potion of Health
6 Minor Potion of Speed
6 White Wyrm Claw
1 Blackwater Dagger
2 Blackwater Iron Sword
2852 Gold
Used zero potions
Total Gold value for all goods: $7536
and 53,086 experience

In the BWMC I gained experience 2.7 times faster than I did in the RoLS area, and gained gold or gold equivalent 2.3 times faster. Also of note, I used zero potions in BWMC. While I only used 5 in the RoLS area, and though it is not too far away, time will still have to be spent to reacquire those used potions while BWMC characters continue to grind. Additionally, the weaker the character is compared to the test character, the more the disparity grows. I only had to use 5 Bonemeal in the RoLS area, but a level 20 may have to use many, many more. The BWMC character will not have to use any potions no matter what his level, because you can kill as few monsters as you need to before hitting the bed again. Furthermore, this was just 30 minutes of grinding (60 if you count the practice runs). The longer you grind, the worse the stats will look for RoLS area. There is about 4k experience in the area at the start of the test that can be obtained without waiting for it to respawn. That 4k exp in 2 minutes will get diluted the longer you grind and the numbers will get worse. And to top it all off, as you gain experience 2.7 faster on BWM, you will be leveling 2.7 times faster and killing monsters faster with every level, ultimately increasing that 2.7 higher and higher. Oh, and let's not forget one very important detail: there is no guarantee that you will ever get a RoLS!

Conclusions
As I posted several times, I do not believe the RoLS to be worth searching for. As stated before, I think the +6 damage ring is pretty close to equal, except for the regeneration (especially if you don't use a crit hit weapon), but that the time spent getting one would make it a waste by comparison.

You shouldn't search for a RoLS if you:
1. Have already leveled your attack chance up to your desired level for now. As we saw in the AC Chart posted in another thread, you do not gain much from another 15% if you already have a huge difference between your AC and their BC. Losing the 3 damage per hit would make a huge difference.
2. Already have the ability to grind in BWMC area. The gain of experience at 2.7 times the rate gained in the RoLS area will certainly make up for the perceived advantages of the RoLS over the +6 damage ring. The regeneration effect of the RoLS will be washed out by your superior levels, ability to kill enemies more efficiently, and the use of the Bonemeal you can buy with your 2.3 times as much Gold.
You should search for a RoLS if you:
1. Can't make it up to BWMC area yet to grind. I personally did my grinding in Flagstone Prison, but I didn't know RoLS existed when I was doing that...
2. Prefer cool rare stuff over making your character as mean as possible. I play MtG and understand the value of collectors' items and how collectors think at times. If you really, really want one just to have one, GO FOR IT!
3. Haven't committed yourself on your stats yet and would like to have a RoLS. If I got one now, I don't think I would even wear it.
Last edited by nyktos on Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: edited for content
Lvl: 162, XP: 77,249,000, Gold: 2,508,000 RoLS: 0, ElyR: 0, RoL: 0, ChaR: 18, GoLF: 0, ShaF: 2
HP: 517, AC: 333%, AD: 60-61, AP: 3, CC: 90%, CM: 3, BC: 218%, DR: 0, BMP: 4k+

Samuel
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android_version: 2.2

Re: Putting the RoLS debate to rest! Answer the poll after.

Post by Samuel » Mon Jul 11, 2011 4:19 pm

In the 30 minutes of grinding one could gain 300 HP if one had a RoLS equipped. :D :D :D
I think you underrestimate the 10 HP per minute you get.
Level: 101, XP: 18780586, Gold: 358739
HP: 398, AC: 303%, AD: 84-95, AP: 4, ECC: 12, CM: -, BC: 13%, DR: 0
RoLS: 2, ElyR: 1, RoL: 1, ChaR: 1, GoLF: 1, ShaF: 1, SRoV: 2, VSH: 1, WMC: 0, GoW: 0

Chest_Rockfield
Posts: 530
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2011 1:05 am
android_version: 2.3 - Gingerbread
Location: Impeached former President of the Too cool for a RoLS Club. ;)

Re: Putting the RoLS debate to rest! Answer the poll after.

Post by Chest_Rockfield » Mon Jul 11, 2011 4:31 pm

I have tons of gold. If I sold all of my useless items I'd probably have well of a third of a million dollars. I can buy 6,000 Bonemeal potions if I wanted. I don't need to gain health, I need stats. And health gain during a battle, the most important part of the life gain, I would imagine is never more than 1, maybe 2hp. The stats I gained not looking for the RoLS will totally make up for that.
Lvl: 162, XP: 77,249,000, Gold: 2,508,000 RoLS: 0, ElyR: 0, RoL: 0, ChaR: 18, GoLF: 0, ShaF: 2
HP: 517, AC: 333%, AD: 60-61, AP: 3, CC: 90%, CM: 3, BC: 218%, DR: 0, BMP: 4k+

Mino
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Re: Putting the RoLS debate to rest! Answer the poll after.

Post by Mino » Mon Jul 11, 2011 4:52 pm

That's some serious research, so thanks for all that info!

I answered the poll with "I still plan to try for one", but wanted to add that I only plan to do so after some serious leveling up by the cabin on the way to BWM, and I will probably try for the ElyR first since its closer by.

I'm not quite at the level some of you are (still in my 30s) but I have noticed the XP building up a lot faster by the cabin. I'm currently looking to build up by AC to beyond 200% and my AD to at least above 25 minimum without a sword (so I can use the quick strike dagger which doesn't add to AD). Then I want to build up my BC because if I don't get hit, then I can't get fatigued. I have at least 50 fatigue potions but they're not exactly as low priced as bone meal so I'd prefer to not have to go through them too fast.
Lvl: 206 XP: 159262572, Gold: 1657119, RoLS: 2, ElyR: 1, RoL: 1, ChaR: 2, GoLF: 1, ShaF: 6, SRoV: 1, VSH: 6, WMC: 1, GoW: 1
HP: 241, AP: 3, AC: 562%, AD: 116-130, CM: 3.0, ECC: 38%, BC: 139%, DR: 3

IF 1, Reg 1, CE 1, Ev 3, Clv 2, MC 3 QL 25, MF 2

7/9/14

Dreia
Posts: 97
Joined: Wed May 11, 2011 4:50 pm

Re: Putting the RoLS debate to rest! Answer the poll after.

Post by Dreia » Mon Jul 11, 2011 4:56 pm

Heh I've been saying since the ring was introduced that it wasn't all that much of an upgrade. The only reason I hit the garg trainers at all was for something to do, and as soon as I get my next level (I died with only a few hundred XP short of leveling. . .17.5k XP lost is painful) I probably won't ever return there.

~D
~Level 33~
~HP: 65 ~ AP: 2 ~ AC: 143% ~ DMG: 23 ~ BC: 32% ~
Small Rocks: 1000 RoLS: 0

pelligrini
Posts: 83
Joined: Mon May 23, 2011 11:27 pm
Location: TX

Re: Putting the RoLS debate to rest! Answer the poll after.

Post by pelligrini » Mon Jul 11, 2011 5:08 pm

Good info, and I agree that the BWMC would be the best place to grind for experience. If you're strong enough to hang there. I go all they way to the entrance of the BWM settlement, hoping to pick up another legendary item. I am running at a deficit potion wise when compared to the gargoyle cave (doesn't include items that could be sold, or gold for potions). If I just stayed around the cabin I'm sure I could keep the potion costs way down, but there wouldn't be a chance for a unique item.

I like grinding for an objective, not just for level increases. I'm still going to go after a RoLS...

When I was in the gargoyle cave I wouldn't play constantly. I'd make a run through and then stop and the map to the right of the trainers and put the phone down and do something else for a bit, like work. Sometime I'd go out to the road and hit some snakes and pigs for some meat. I really wasn't there for the levels they were just extra in persuit of the ring. I was getting a surplus of potions too.
Lvl: 95, XP: 15472157, Gold: 741302, RoLS: 1, ElyR: 1 , RoL 1, ChaR 4, GoLF 1, ShaF 1, SRoV 2, VSH 1
HP: 136, AC: 278%, AD: 42-46, AP: 3, CS: 76 CM: 5.25, CC:33%, BC: 130%, DR: 1, UPD: 2012/7/18

slayer
Posts: 107
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android_version: 4.0
Location: Hirathil Cave, The Green Maze

Re: Putting the RoLS debate to rest! Answer the poll after.

Post by slayer » Mon Jul 11, 2011 5:26 pm

Have one, and I would like to have another. 30% change of 3x damage? I love to see those massive hits.
Now that I know how the attack and defense percentages actually work, I'm not planning on putting much more effort into raising those stats. I'll just drop it in damage, with the occasional bump to HP.
But that's just how I roll, everybody has their own style.
slayer

Lvl: 152, XP: 64525939, Gold: 2095292, HP: 219
AC: 400%, AD: 52-68, AP: 12/4, BC 254%, DR: 3
CS: 2 QL: 22 IF: 2 REGEN: 1 MF :8 FS:DW: 2 S:DW: 1 OHSP: 1 LAP: 1

RoLS: 2, ElyR: 1, RoL: 2, ChaR: 1, GoLF: 1, ShaF: 1, SRoV: 5, VSH: 6, WMC: 1, GoW: 2

Cervando
Posts: 84
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:43 am

Re: Putting the RoLS debate to rest! Answer the poll after.

Post by Cervando » Mon Jul 11, 2011 5:49 pm

Not sure what you are trying to prove here. Clearly if you are sufficiently high enough in level to grind in BW Mountain, it is a better place to gain loot and experience, but before the expansion Flagstone Fortress was better than the caverns anyhow. The only reason to grind the caverns is for the ring, so if you want one you will continue to do so, if not you won't.

Is the ring worth it? Many including myself think so. When I decide if an item is any good, I look at how many level equivalents it is worth. Thus, for a +6 damage ring it would take 6 levels to get the same stats. For a RoLS, excluding the very useful regeneration and crit chance, it is also worth 6 levels. I would equate the crit chance and the regeneration as at least worth an extra 2 levels, if not 4. Either way it is better than the +6 ring, as the loss of 3 AD can be gained when levelling as you won't have to take 3 levels of AC, due to the RoLS bonus. The rest is gravy.

Now others will argue that grinding on the mountain means you gain levels faster, which is true, but since the next expansion is months away, the danger is that you will trivialise future content because your level is so high. Hence, I intend to get as many legendary items as I can, before concentrating on levelling.
Level 40, AP 3, AC 195%, AD 21-22, CC 25%, CM 3, BC 60%, HP 60, 945 rocks, RoLS 1, RoL 0, ElyR 0

OR

Level 40, AP 2, AC 170%, AD 27, CC 0%, CM 0, BC 40%, HP 40, 945 rocks, RoLS 1, RoL 0, ElyR 0

Chest_Rockfield
Posts: 530
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2011 1:05 am
android_version: 2.3 - Gingerbread
Location: Impeached former President of the Too cool for a RoLS Club. ;)

Re: Putting the RoLS debate to rest! Answer the poll after.

Post by Chest_Rockfield » Mon Jul 11, 2011 6:03 pm

Wouldn't several legendary items run you the same risk of trivializing future content??
Lvl: 162, XP: 77,249,000, Gold: 2,508,000 RoLS: 0, ElyR: 0, RoL: 0, ChaR: 18, GoLF: 0, ShaF: 2
HP: 517, AC: 333%, AD: 60-61, AP: 3, CC: 90%, CM: 3, BC: 218%, DR: 0, BMP: 4k+

tuner240
Posts: 56
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 7:33 am

Re: Putting the RoLS debate to rest! Answer the poll after.

Post by tuner240 » Mon Jul 11, 2011 6:22 pm

This test was put together very well, aside from the level 50 viewpoint. I feel that the RoLS would give a lower level character better attribute boosts than a higher level character. Regardless I think that it explains what the pro's and con's are between the two. Extra damage is, well, EXTRA DAMAGE. While the regenerative attribute is nice, 10 hp a min is nothing in the face of mobs when you are grinding, for example, ElyR or level gaining. Time wasted waiting for your hp to rise or having to make extra hits because of lower AD is time wasted that could have been used to kill mobs. You will have large amounts of gold, using it on Bonemeal potions, while taking 5 AP per use per round, is a faster healing agent. The boost to AC for lower levels is a definite plus and so is the AD, while the extra CD is welcomed at any level.
Level: 45, Experience: 1656541, Gold: 47376, RoLS: 0, ElyR: 0, RoL: 0
Hitpoints: 70, Attack chance: 197%, Attack damage: 29-30, Attack cost: 3, Critical hit chance: 20%, Critical multiplier: 3, Block chance: 30%, Damage resistance: 0

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