Increased Fortitude is Overpowered ! Nerf it !

Unstructured ideas, requests and suggestions for the development of the game.
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rijackson741
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Re: Increased Fortitude is Overpowered ! Nerf it !

Post by rijackson741 »

Zukero wrote:- Don't change the levels required for IF, so no impacts on regen. No change to the HP required for regen either (forcing you to spend some HP level ups for regen).
It will affect both Regeneration and Corpse Eater though, because both depend on base HP. So how do you propose to handle existing characters after the changes have been made to the game? One possibility is to grandfather it, so if you already have the high HP you get to keep them. I think that option will be deemed to be "unfair" by many that have not taken lots of IF. The other possibility is to recalculate them, in which case many people will lose HP. With reduced HP, there are sure to be some people that have taken levels of Regeneration and/or Corpse Eater that they are no longer eligible for. Do they then get their skill points back (I can't think of any other option)? As far as recalculating a characters HP goes, can that even be done? Depending on what's stored in the save game file, that may or may not be possible. If some base HP value is stored, and the boost due to IF (and of course gear) is calculated when the game is loaded, then it would be possible. But if the base HP value includes the effects of IF up to the current level, and there is no record of when each level of IF was taken, recalculating HP will not be possible.
Level:69, XP:6092391, PV:584, FQ:81
HP:229, AC:212, AD:57-75, AP:4, ECC:16%, CM:1.5, BC:188, DR:3
Gold: 237559 | RoLS:1, RoL:1, GoW:1, VSH:1, RoFLS:1, WoB:1
HH:1, WA:1, CS:2, Cl:1, IF:4, Ev:3, Re:2, WP:DA:1, WP:1S:1, AP:L:1, FS:DW:2, S:DW:1
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Zukero
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Re: Increased Fortitude is Overpowered ! Nerf it !

Post by Zukero »

Indeed, recalculating is impossible, as no track is kept about when you took IF.
I believe people should keep their HP as is, and also keep any skill acquired. Plus, I would also make IF active as if they took all their IF levels right when they loaded their saves (so, someone with IF3 will receive 3HP at each level up for the next 20 levels).

Indeed, it would give advantage to players with old saves, that they may keep as golden. It's one of the things that are bound to happen with an evolving game engine.
For example, I have two DotSP thanks to a now-fixed bug; and have over 7K BMP, which would take ages now that the stores are persistents.
Lvl: 78, XP: 8622632, Gold: 271542, RoLS: 1, ElyR: -, RoL: -, ChaR: 1, GoLF: 1, ShaF: 1, SRoV: 1, VSH: 1, WMC: 1, GoW: 1
HP: 71, AC: 301%, AD: 38-47, AP: 3, ECC: 50%, CM: 3.75, BC: 101%, DR: 2
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rijackson741
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Re: Increased Fortitude is Overpowered ! Nerf it !

Post by rijackson741 »

Yes, you are right. With a developing game sometimes there is no ideal way (or even perhaps a good way) to deal with what has gone before. Sometimes people get their characters nerfed because of changes to the behavior of skills they chose (for example critical builds), other times people get an unexpected bonus. If the game is to be improved then sometimes it's unavoidable.

In which case I strongly favor the expiring IF solution (although I would choose 25 levels not 20, but since I have IF4 perhaps I'm biased :D ), because it means the ultimate benefit of IF no longer depends on when you take it. That's the bit I don't like about your proposal. Currently IF is a non-choice partly because if you don't take it immediately then you pay the price forever, and it is the only skill for which that is true. But your proposal turns that on it's head, and gives a penalty for taking it as soon as it's available. I would prefer that, like all other skills, the ultimate benefit is independent of when you take it, so a player can choose the order in which they take skills without any bonus or any penalty.
Level:69, XP:6092391, PV:584, FQ:81
HP:229, AC:212, AD:57-75, AP:4, ECC:16%, CM:1.5, BC:188, DR:3
Gold: 237559 | RoLS:1, RoL:1, GoW:1, VSH:1, RoFLS:1, WoB:1
HH:1, WA:1, CS:2, Cl:1, IF:4, Ev:3, Re:2, WP:DA:1, WP:1S:1, AP:L:1, FS:DW:2, S:DW:1
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Re: Increased Fortitude is Overpowered ! Nerf it !

Post by r0tt3nj4ck »

I actually hated the decaying hp idea at first but I have to say having watched it play out a bit.... I have changed my mind. It elegantly deals with a problem while ( I believe) actually adding to gameplay.
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Re: Increased Fortitude is Overpowered ! Nerf it !

Post by Pyrizzle »

If messing with IF would effect REGENERATION, I am not a fan of it.

One of my favorite builds has 6 levels in IF and REG.

(IMHO: Give it a MAX level and let's call it good)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Player Name:Pyro
Lvl:24XP:244KAP:2/10HP:80AC: 189%AD:13-21CHS:-6CM: 0BC: 20%DR:2
IF:2Reg:2FSDW:1

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Re: Increased Fortitude is Overpowered ! Nerf it !

Post by Link »

New suggestion:

How about incorporating IF-Level 1 into every single player right from the start and increase the level-up choice to 10HP?
This way nobody would miss the choice of taking IF early on and the game would stay exciting, but players who like a lot of HP can still get there by choosing the 10 extra HP on level up - but, with the trade-off of loosing on AC, BC or AD.
Level: 100|Exp:18063694|Gold:699883|AP:12/3|HP:396|AC:336%|AD: 56-69|BC:133%|DR:4
Skills: WA:2|HH:2|CS:2|QL:2|CE:2|IF:5|CL:2|EV:1|Reg:1|OhSp:2|Sh:1|FS-W&S:2|Spec-W&S:1
Items: RoLS:1|ElyR:0|RoL:1|ChaR:1|GoLF:1|ShaF:1|SRoV:1|VSH:1|WMC:0|GoW:0

1st RoLS at: 2916 Trainers and 2731 Masters
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Re: Increased Fortitude is Overpowered ! Nerf it !

Post by valshaq »

I'd have a completely different suggestion: Let there be ACs that are not fixed but relative to your stats.
For example a poison that subtracts 10% of your max HP (but at least 5HP) every round.
Why that way?
It shouldn't matter that much anymore whether you visit the region "too late" in the game. Some areas can become really boring if you've done something else before and so are "too old" now.
ValShaq 2014-02-10
Lvl: 38 XP: 1026607 AP: 12/2 HP: 91 AC: 233% AD: 23-31 BC: 64% DR: 2 Skills: IF: 2 Reg: 1 WP: 1 CE: 1 CS: 2 DG: 1 DP: 1 SP: 1 EV: 1
Eq: QSD, Wood Def, JoF, Lw chnm, Cr ir h, Vn's R, RoP, Hvy pl gl, Wdc b
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Re: Increased Fortitude is Overpowered ! Nerf it !

Post by r0tt3nj4ck »

Or.

Make IF a set amount.

IF lvl 1 adds ( I dunno ) say 20 HP.

IF lvl 2 adds say 25.

That fits with keeping other skills unaltered and keeps the timing of the decision out.
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Re: Increased Fortitude is Overpowered ! Nerf it !

Post by Antison »

People, IMO, you all are over thinking and complicating this. Just simply cap the allowed points in IF to some level. I vote for 2.
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Re: Increased Fortitude is Overpowered ! Nerf it !

Post by rijackson741 »

r0tt3nj4ck wrote:Make IF a set amount. IF lvl 1 adds ( I dunno ) say 20 HP.
IMHO, an additional 20HP at level 5 would be very overpowered for that level.
Antison wrote:People, IMO, you all are over thinking and complicating this. Just simply cap the allowed points in IF to some level. I vote for 2.
That would address the problem that IF is overpowered, but it would not address Zukero's point that IF is a non-choice. It is the only skill that if you do not take it immediately you will always pay a price. Capping the duration rather than the number of levels is just as easy, but that solution would mean that a player will eventually get the same benefit from IF regardless of when they took the skill.
Level:69, XP:6092391, PV:584, FQ:81
HP:229, AC:212, AD:57-75, AP:4, ECC:16%, CM:1.5, BC:188, DR:3
Gold: 237559 | RoLS:1, RoL:1, GoW:1, VSH:1, RoFLS:1, WoB:1
HH:1, WA:1, CS:2, Cl:1, IF:4, Ev:3, Re:2, WP:DA:1, WP:1S:1, AP:L:1, FS:DW:2, S:DW:1
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