Increased Fortitude is Overpowered ! Nerf it !

[sorrow]

Then to fix my ideas problem every level you get 2 hp with if cap at 1. But once you take if you no longer can take the hp boost at Lvl ups because you get it with if

[ctnbeh13]

I know I'm not gonna make a lot of new friends here.

I was thinking about the IF skill the other day, and how it's just the one skill you HAVE to take, and take it ASAP.
It's THAT good to do it, and THAT bad to miss it, even by just doing it a few levels too late.

What do you think of it ?

Ah, making friends. It seems so hard to do at even the most unlikely of times. I once encouraged others to consider the benefits of taking Quick Learner here: http://www.andorstrail.com/viewtopic.php?p=6770#p6770

Taking the risk of upsetting a few, with the intent of helping many in the forum community is, as I believe, a necessity at times. Keep up the good work.

[rijackson741]

I know I'm not gonna make a lot of new friends here.

A lot of people seem to agree with you. Although perhaps you are right anyway, because so far they could be considered "old friends"

I completely agree with you on the fact that IF is overpowered, although only at low levels. I already have IF4, and have every intention of taking IF5 at level 65. After that I'm not so sure though, because each level has a smaller relative advantage than the previous level. Once IF gets to about 5 or 6, is it really worth spending a skill point on another level? So I think a big problem with IF is that you can accumulate too many levels too soon. With that in mind, I'm not sure your proposal is the right solution (it would force a choice, but I think it would still be overpowered), and I definitely don't like the idea of a simple cap on the number of levels of IF you can get.

How about if the gaps between levels got rapidly bigger. So for example you can get IF1 at level 4. Yes that's down a level, but I believe there is a goal to make the early game easier, and making IF1 available at level 4 would do that. Anyone that didn't take it at least wouldn't feel "tricked" that if they has just waited one level they could have chosen a better skill. IF2 would be available 17 levels later, at level 21. IF3 would be available 34 levels later (i.e. double the gap), at level 45. IF4 would be available 51 levels later (triple the original gap), at level 96. And so on. I realize that when these levels come up choosing IF as the skill would still be a no brainer, but they would come up far less often, so that would be less of an issue. It would also make IF much less useful as the default HP builder, and it would be a worthwhile skill until much higher levels of the game than now. The particular numbers I chose are just examples of course, it's the principle that matters.

A final thought. Maybe what I suggest could be combined with your suggestion. So IF becomes more of a choice, and a less powerful skill with benefits spread out over many more levels than is the case now.

That's my 2 cents worth, anyway

[sorrow]

Good idea rij but that wouldn't solve the problem with high hp.

[ctnbeh13]

I would like a solution making choosing IF over any other skill an informed decision, that you do because you choose to build a character that has at least some focus on HP.

Generally speaking, this could be addressed by modifying the beginning of the game to have a certain NPC basically sit you down and explain that there will be much to learn, and that much will be learned during your travels and exploration (the skill system). This should be done at the appropriate time, to make the opportunity to encourage the selection of Increased fortitude by explaining its benefits, but yet not making it mandatory.

I believe that this would be a nice tie in, similar to the way many games have some form of guidance in this manner in the beginning stages. There are a few approaches to this type of introduction, which we could discuss.

This will not necessarily satisfy those who feel that the skill is overpowered, but I have an entirely different response to that.

[r0tt3nj4ck]

This will not necessarily satisfy those who feel that the skill is overpowered, but I have an entirely different response to that.

I would privately hear that response.

[ctnbeh13]

This will not necessarily satisfy those who feel that the skill is overpowered, but I have an entirely different response to that.

I would privately hear that response.

I will gladly add you to the mailing list if a satisfactory agreement/compromise isn't achieved here.

[PK17]

Instead of nerfing IF, how about buffing the HP lvl up bonus? If that gives you 10 instead of 5 it might become a more viable option for those who want to save their skill points for something else.

[Pyrizzle]

I do agree that Increased Fortitude has a tendency to be abused...

But i also believe that NERFing IF is not the solution to this problem.

A cap to the SP that you can put into IF is still my favorite option.

[Usirim]

Ah, my beloved topic...

I had one posting long ago about IF and Health points. Imho it is not so important to link it.
But since that time I have had the chance to think a lot about IF skill levels, health points and surviving the game on different Levels.


My "2 cents":
1) at low lvl IF is a must (a simple but deadly fact) - or with other words: investing two or three skill points as early as possible is a good decision, may one of the best decissions a player could choose.
2) after reaching around 200 HP or so and around lvl 70 the game (at the moment) is not so deadly any more. I like it that way, other players prefer more demanding epic battles on lower levels. And no one is forced to increase IF at all!
3) that means everybody can develop his or her Char on their own preferences.

I say:
as long as there is no innovative new way for IF leave it as it is. Players can decide on their own when and how many skill points they use.
If a player stops playing AT after some hours, the whole game itself was not pleasing the player. As long as Oskar's intention is NOT making halve the world addictet to AT those players are free to play whatever they want and how long they want. Enough players enjoy AT for a long time. Some even are faithfull for years!
We (the people reading or writing on this forum) share a unusual intensive relationship with this game. For us it has more meaning than a lot of other game apps.
Part of our support is discussing about AT and all parts of this game.
Even having controverse discussions may help to develop AT. And imho this thread is a bit controverse.

My favourite idea atm is to start every Char with IF lvl 1 and let increase IF optional. Further I though about make avaible IF 2 on lvl 10, IF 3 on lvl 30, IF 4 on lvl 60, ...
PK17 made a point with +10HP option on level up - or even HP increase calculating through a formular. Guess this would fit perfect with my idea.
After all it is an idea.
In the past I prefered to increade starting HP (I had valves around 50 to 200 in mind) - but that would mean to rebalance the whole game valves. Such heavy decissions are not my goal.
The dev team or Oskar makes the decissions and since we keep playing and a lot of players love this game for years now we can say: they do great!

btw: what means IF abuse? IF has no lvl limit and is only aviable every once in a while. So from my understanding it cannot be abused. Getting 1000+HP is a player decisdion and needs 100++ hours of game play to gain. If someone is ready to invest so much time on AT why should this player not reach such an heroic goal in the end? Nobody is forced to do the same.
I can understand that players say that 1000+HP is to much - personally I agree on that. On the other hand I am against regulating any player to gain such valves. That is after all a personal decission. Let us keep it that way.