Andor's Trail

Antison wrote:People, IMO, you all are over thinking and complicating this. Just simply cap the allowed points in IF to some level. I vote for 2.

Now this is exactly why I like my suggestion. It is dead simple:
Include an automatic IF to each character from the start with +1HP for each level and remove the skill from the skill tree.

If you want more HP for your build, you can still choose it from the list. This would also keep the balance throughout the game... at least that's what it feels like to me looking back on my development. If you feel that 5HP points for a level up are too little we could think about increasing it. Dunno... maybe 7 or even 10?

Link wrote:Now this is exactly why I like my suggestion. It is dead simple:
Include an automatic IF to each character from the start with +1HP for each level and remove the skill from the skill tree.

In roguelikes I played before, that always happened. How much HP you get is most often based upon a stat like constitution.
Now that skill can very roughly be thought of as such a stat.

I got a quite nice idea (I guess): Make max level 1 on IF if the skill changes to "Give 3 life every level". That way some people rather go with "HP at level up", and others investing one single skillpoint into IF. Then you really get two good choices. Even three (if you get IF at level 1 and invest in "HP at level up"

Maybe IF could be an advanced skill based on Corpse Eater/Regeneration? Making those skills important too (IF could be a level 8 skill) ^^

i like IF stay the way it is, having high hp dot not mean mob can hurt you, depend on character build it just help you not frequently needed heal, thats all, therefor let player made it own choice, i remember first time playing AT, i put skill point in treasure hunter duhhh still feel stupid,i mean if player make mistake do not take earlier then it player mistake, talking about overpowered it something like RoL are should addressed first, you have 1 bang healing potion rendered "useless", there other skill can be considered overpowered depending the way player plays or what definition of overpowered to player itself. to be honest i do not care if IF are capped or changed, i just thought IF the way it is do help give player variety how AT character can be play well it just my thought.

I think that IF combined with other skills is OverPowered. IF itself is not OP. That's my opinion. We just need more balance in the game.

rijackson741 wrote:

Antison wrote:People, IMO, you all are over thinking and complicating this. Just simply cap the allowed points in IF to some level. I vote for 2.

That would address the problem that IF is overpowered, but it would not address Zukero's point that IF is a non-choice. It is the only skill that if you do not take it immediately you will always pay a price.

As others have mentioned, IF is not the only "non-choice" skill. Combat Speed is the other elephant in the room and it was handled by a simple static cap. So... new suggestion:

Skill: Increased Fortitude
Effect: Each point taken in Increased Fortitude increases the amount of HP gained when spending a level up point on HP by 1.
Cap: Increased Fortitude caps at level 5.

Now, taking IF literally gives you nothing in and of itself. The only thing it does is make taking HP as a level up choice a more valuable option. You still have to spend those level up points on HP rather than on AD/AC/BC. At max level (5), each level up point spent on HP gives you 10 HP as opposed to 5 HP. This makes the choice of IF a much longer term investment; decreasing the necessity of taking it by lowering the short term benefits it provides to very low while still making it an option for those intending on stacking HP over the long run.

Oh, and...

r0tt3nj4ck wrote:Make late game mobs hit harder.....

Agreed

IF increasing the level-up bonus... I like it !
Maybe give it more power, like each IF increases HP bonus by 2, or even by IF level (IF1->+1HP, IF2->+3HP, IF3->+6HP...), and cap at IF5 like you said.

CS is indeed the other non-choice, but an AP related skill is imho needed, and I don't see how any AP-related bonus could not be a non-choice... but that would deserve its own topic.

hmm, IF increasing the level-up bonus does seem to make sense and add balance, as in making one have to consider select HP as a level bonus....I think I like this idea as well. Nice suggestion Fiernaq.

Nice, fiernaq! A good way to balance things out.
W/ 2 points HP per IF and 5 levels cap, 5 level-ups will yield 5 AD, 25% AC, 15% BC, or 75 HP! That's pretty high! Good for HP hogs.
But that would also mean Regen is cut to 5 levels, tho I doubt anyone would go that high.

Has somebody ever tried to play a Char with corpse eater & regeneration on level 10? I gave it a try and it is far less effective as one may expect.

It won't make your low Lvl Char invincible, with normal AC and AD your Char is dying nearly as fast as having no regeneration and no corpse eater.
If your Char has reached a higher level, high BC is much more important since some monsters can inflict 100+ points of damage per round. Gaining 10 HP on kill cannot compensate this. So avoiding a hit is most important for surviving battles against strong enemies.

I say: let regeneration be independent from IF skill.

@fiernag: nice idea. Since I love my Lvl120 Char as he is, I think I don't like it, but if there would be a voting about how to change IF, you could count on my voice.

There is the skill combat speed: this discussion about IF inspired me to change CS from increasing max AP to percentage chance for extra action within the round. Lvl 1 gives a 10% chance for extra action, lvl 2 gives 20% and cap it on lvl 5.

Since this may influence Cleave negative, combine both skills. Make Cleave independent from Weapon precision and Hard hit and let the amount of AP be increased by the Cleave lvl. Cut both skills on lvl 5 and limit the maximum possible Action per round to 6. So CS and Cleave makes more sense if one uses slow weapons (these are at the moment very very unatttractive), but this won't come for cheap. And the QSD won't loose too much fans, since the skill points can be used for other purposes fitting with QSD.

Any opinions about this ideas?