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Increase drop rate/exp based on enemies fought in one battle

Unstructured ideas, requests and suggestions for the development of the game.
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spooky
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Increase drop rate/exp based on enemies fought in one battle

Post by spooky »

Hey guys,

I know that any mention of changing drop rates is usually met with skepticism at best, but bear with me for a second here. I tried to condense my idea into the title so it'd be obvious that I'm not asking to increase the drop rate in general.

So here's my idea: If you are in continuous battle with more than one enemy, multiply the drop rate and/or EXP for every subsequent enemy by the number of enemies fought in this battle. Say you're in the cave under Lodar's house and you're being swarmed by three Hirathil ghosts and a bat. You defeat a ghost first and the multiplier is 1x. The bat goes second and receives multiplier 2x (since it's the second enemy killed in this battle). Consequently, ghosts two and three receive multipliers of 3x and 4x.

Here's my reasoning for my idea: Swarms are hard. My character is LVL60+ by now and can withstand about any normal enemy, but being swarmed by a couple of enemies can still knock me out. There should be some reward for surviving a battle with multiple enemies since several at once are way more difficult to beat. There just should be some kind of acknowledgement that says "yes, fighting several monsters at once is harder. Here, have something as a reward."

Furthermore, it would add some incentive to strategic battling -- drawing out battles against swarming enemies to increase the chain, ending rounds early so enemies can come closer, moving towards enemies -- things like that. It would also encourage people to think more about the order they defeat enemies in -- it would be beneficial to defeat the enemy with the highes EXP last so you'd get the highest multiplier. To be honest, I think the battle system right now is somewhat boring -- there are no elemental weaknesses to take into account, no magic, no different kinds of attacks. Every fight is basically the same -- run into the monster and tap the screen until one of you is dead.

I don't think the multiplier would unbalance the game at all. The maximum length of the chain is limited by enemies in an area anyway (enemies can't spawn while you're in battle, right?), so I don't think that you'd ever get an insanely high multiplier to drop rate/experience.

(EXP) Say you manage to chain five Hirathil ghosts. They give about 300EXP if I'm not mistaken, so that'd be 300*(1+2+3+4+5) = 4500EXP. For characters who are high-level enough to be able to beat five of them at once, that's really not a whole lot of additional EXP.

(Drop rate) It probably won't change any grinding for legendary items. As far as I know, there aren't any drops from swarming enemies yet, so the longest "chain" you can receive for normal enemies is probably two or three. If you're fighting three enemies with legendary drops, you'd get 0.01% drop rate for the first, 0.02% for the second and 0.03% for the third. This might seem like a lot, but you actually have to put in the effort of getting three enemies into one battle.

It probably wouldn't be all that hard to put into code either. There's already multipliers to drop rate and experience, so you'd just add an additional modifier. All of them should work on the base values, of course.
rate = chain multiplier * base rate + skill multiplier * skill level * base rate
The bold part would be the additional part.

(EXP) Say you have Quick Learner 4 (with skill multiplier 5% and skill level 4) and defeat 3 Hirathil ghosts at once for about 300EXP each. You'd get different EXP for each enemy since the chain multiplier changes.
1. EXP = 1 * 300EXP + 0.05 * 4 * 300EXP = 360EXP
2. EXP = 2 * 300EXP + 0.05 * 4 * 300EXP = 660EXP
3. EXP = 3 * 300EXP + 0.05 * 4 * 300EXP = 960EXP
for 1980EXP total.

(Drop rate) Say you have Magic Finder 4 (skill multiplier 50% and skill level 4) and defeat 3 enemies with legendary drops (I'm just writing out the third one since it has the highest drop rate):
3. rate = 3 * 0.01% + 0.5 * 4 * 0.01% = 0.05%

It'd be possible to adjust the chain multiplier, of course. I guess halving the multiplier would still mean a big enough reward without changing the numbers too much. I'm really not suggesting any specific numbers, just the idea of the number of enemies fought in that battle having an influence on the outcome.
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Zukero
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Re: Increase drop rate/exp based on enemies fought in one ba

Post by Zukero »

Great post.
It's well written, explains your ideas in great details, and is really easy to read read.
It's nice to see someone offering an idea putting that much effort in laying it down.

IMHO, I'd say that giving chain-combo bonuses would be cool, but for exp only. Eventually for gold too, but I'm not so sure.
I would really lower the numbers though, using a .25 for each kill (first gives 100% exp, second 125%, third 150%...), and why not, adding a new skill the raises this number by 100% for each level (level 1: first gives 100%, second 150%, third 200%... level 2: first gives 100%, second 175%, third 250%...).
Reaching level 3 would give the numbers you offered.
With the right strategy, this could be more profitable than quick learner, yet not overcome it in a completely obvious way.

I would also not combine these two effects the same way. Quick Learner's bonus could be added on top of the resulting exp amount.

Example:
Say you have "Army of One" (heh, why not) level 2, and "Quick Learner" level 1.
You kill three Hirathil ghosts in a single fight. You get:
300 * (1 + 1.75 + 2.5) * 1.05 = 1653 exp (rounded down, as always)

If you had invested all 3 points on "Quick Learner":
300 * (1 + 1.25 + 1.5) * 1.15 = 1293 exp

Further down the cave, you get to kill five of them:
300 * (1 + 1.75 + 2.5 + 3.25 + 4) * 1.05 = 3937 exp

If you had invested all 3 points on "Quick Learner":
300 * (1 + 1.25 + 1.5 + 1.75 + 2) * 1.15 = 2587 exp


I'm all ears for all comments, including propositions for the eventual future skill name.
Here's what I could come up with:
- Army of One
- Walkabout
- Swarm swimmer
- Adephagia (or Bulimia)
Lvl: 78, XP: 8622632, Gold: 271542, RoLS: 1, ElyR: -, RoL: -, ChaR: 1, GoLF: 1, ShaF: 1, SRoV: 1, VSH: 1, WMC: 1, GoW: 1
HP: 71, AC: 301%, AD: 38-47, AP: 3, ECC: 50%, CM: 3.75, BC: 101%, DR: 2
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rijackson741
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Re: Increase drop rate/exp based on enemies fought in one ba

Post by rijackson741 »

Zukero wrote:IMHO, I'd say that giving chain-combo bonuses would be cool, but for exp only. Eventually for gold too, but I'm not so sure.
It doesn't seem logical to me that a monster would drop more gold or items just because you killed it's buddy in the same fight. Killing multiple monsters in one fight is certainly harder than killing the same number one at a time though, so I think the experience boost is a good idea.
Zukero wrote:I would really lower the numbers though, using a .25 for each kill (first gives 100% exp, second 125%, third 150%...), and why not, adding a new skill the raises this number by 100% for each level (level 1: first gives 100%, second 150%, third 200%... level 2: first gives 100%, second 175%, third 250%...).
Even that seems kind of high to me. Getting a second and third monster is quite common (especially if you are trying for it!), and with two levels of the skill the average XP are doubled for those two. IMO, if the boost is that big the skill should be capped at two levels.
Zukero wrote:propositions for the eventual future skill name.
Multikill?
Level:71, XP:6493739, PV:608, FQ:84
HP:210, AC:212, AD:58-77, AP:4, ECC:16%, CM:1.5, BC:188, DR:3
Gold: 237559 | RoLS:1, RoL:1, GoW:1, VSH:1, RoFLS:1, WoB:1
HH:1, WA:1, CS:2, Cl:1, IF:4, Ev:3, Re:2, WP:DA:1, WP:1S:1, WP:B:1, AP:L:1, FS:DW:2, S:DW:1
Duke
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Re: Increase drop rate/exp based on enemies fought in one ba

Post by Duke »

cool idea Spooky...
Zukero wrote:propositions for the eventual future skill name.
Multikill?[/quote]

how about "Chain reaction" or to further rijackson... "Multiplicity"
Lvl78 XP9403007 Gold 248643 AP3 HP139 AC350 AD42-59 BC97 DR1
SP:D MC3 BC CS2 QL4 IF MF EB DW2
Rols1Rol2Elyr1Char1Golf1Shaf0Srov1Vsh1
Ozzy
lvl:47 HP114 AC254 AD27-37 BC112
SP:WA HH CS(2) CL CE IF(2) Reg
Rols1Rol0ElyR0Char2Shaf1Golf1Srov1Vsh1
Melarec
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Re: Increase drop rate/exp based on enemies fought in one ba

Post by Melarec »

(Things don't nest well here, Duke.. :( )

Multiplicity sounds cool.. How about "Kill All The Things!"
Mayweed
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Re: Increase drop rate/exp based on enemies fought in one ba

Post by Mayweed »

Melee would fit. Or do we have this already for another skill?
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rijackson741
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Re: Increase drop rate/exp based on enemies fought in one ba

Post by rijackson741 »

IMO, Melee is the best suggestion. By far the best suggestion. It's short, it's not used yet, and it describes the skill very well. 10/10 :)
Level:71, XP:6493739, PV:608, FQ:84
HP:210, AC:212, AD:58-77, AP:4, ECC:16%, CM:1.5, BC:188, DR:3
Gold: 237559 | RoLS:1, RoL:1, GoW:1, VSH:1, RoFLS:1, WoB:1
HH:1, WA:1, CS:2, Cl:1, IF:4, Ev:3, Re:2, WP:DA:1, WP:1S:1, WP:B:1, AP:L:1, FS:DW:2, S:DW:1
Melarec
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Re: Increase drop rate/exp based on enemies fought in one ba

Post by Melarec »

Melarec wrote: "Kill All The Things!"
But but,, :cry:
spooky
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Re: Increase drop rate/exp based on enemies fought in one ba

Post by spooky »

I'm glad you guys like the idea. :)

I have to agree, using the number of enemies killed as multiplier is way too high. I guess a chain of six isn't too far out there, so you'd get 1800EXP for the last Hirathil ghost alone, that's as much as the base EXP of all six ghosts combined.

To be honest, I don't really think there has to be a skill to increase the multiplier. Skill points are pretty rare anyway, and there are some skills that basically need to be used for any build. Maybe this skill might come in handy in a very late stage of the game, when you already have all the necessary skills.

Maybe at some point this mechanic could be explained in-game as well. Meet an NPC somewhere who tells you that there might be rewards for killing multiple enemies at once, but he's only willing to tell you the secret once you manage to chain at least four monsters. Afterwards, he tells you about the experience boost and the new skill is unlocked. I'm not a fan of discussing game mechanics in-game, but I guess it could be worded in a way that such an NPC would make sense.

The skill shouldn't be unlocked too early on. I'd say the NPC could be somewhere west of the Crossroads guard house, past the bridge with the river troll. Not sure if there are any maps for this area yet.

As far as names for the skill go, it would be nice to have something that emphasizes the "multiple enemies" and "higher gain with number of enemies" part. I like rijackson's "Multikill" (though it's not really about the higher gain part) and Duke's "Chain reaction".
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