End round at end of combat

Unstructured ideas, requests and suggestions for the development of the game.
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Duvalon
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End round at end of combat

Post by Duvalon » Wed Nov 02, 2016 4:09 am

One of my biggest peeves in this game is waiting for regen or meat to heal. When killing creatures to level up, I tend to string them fast enough that rounds rarely end. Eating meat is less then useful in that case, and I'm forced to either use potions or wait. Also when fighting enemies that inflict status effects, that way they barely have any effect, which kind of defeat the purpose in my opinion.

As such, my idea is to simply end a round at the end of combat (all enemies killed). It would make regen and meat a bit more useful, not needing to rely on (bonemeal) potions so much, while making grinding slightly less tedious. It would also make status effects inflicting damage more dangerous while shortening the non-damaging effects a bit.

What do you think?

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rijackson741
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Re: End round at end of combat

Post by rijackson741 » Wed Nov 02, 2016 1:47 pm

Regarding Regeneration, it was consciously changed in 0.6.12 so that it only applies when you are not adjacent to a monster (http://andorstrail.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2199). IIRC for food it was changed from "Regeneration" to "Sustenance" in 0.7.0, but as far as I know the behavior remains the same. So if I stand next to a static monster, which since I have Ev3 I can do forever, Sustenance and Regeneration do not work (I have never checked if this applies to all NPCs, even townsfolk). This is not logical to me, and I don't know why it was changed to work this way. I would personally prefer that they worked like Shadow Regeneration, which is all of the time, even in combat.

I don't understand what you are saying about actor conditions. They are active for a certain number of rounds, regardless of whether you are in combat or not. Rounds in combat is player, until all AP are used, then NPC until all AP are used, etc. Outside of combat it's 6 seconds. So they do indeed have an effect, whether you are in combat or not.
Last edited by rijackson741 on Wed Nov 02, 2016 1:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Level: 64, XP: 4734786, HP: 196, AC: 246%, AD: 49-59, AP: 3, ECC: 25%, CM: 3, BC: 127%, DR: 2
Gold: 232355 | RoLS: 1, RoL: 1, GoW: 1
HH: 1, CS: 2, IF: 4, Ev: 3, Re: 2, WP:DA: 1, WP:1S: 1, AP:L: 1, FS:DW: 2, S:DW: 1
SR

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Re: End round at end of combat

Post by Zukero » Wed Nov 02, 2016 1:57 pm

He says that you can basically make a round last forever by constantly attacking monsters and killing them in the first round. It can help make the "blessings" last longer, but prevents all kind of regen or poison from ever being triggered.
Lvl: 78, XP: 8622632, Gold: 271542, RoLS: 1, ElyR: -, RoL: -, ChaR: 1, GoLF: 1, ShaF: 1, SRoV: 1, VSH: 1, WMC: 1, GoW: 1
HP: 71, AC: 301%, AD: 38-47, AP: 3, ECC: 50%, CM: 3.75, BC: 101%, DR: 2

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rijackson741
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Re: End round at end of combat

Post by rijackson741 » Wed Nov 02, 2016 2:13 pm

I don't see why that would make meat more useful. Unless I misunderstand (and since this has changed over time I should check this) it does not work during combat, and whether a fight is one round or many rounds will not change that.
Level: 64, XP: 4734786, HP: 196, AC: 246%, AD: 49-59, AP: 3, ECC: 25%, CM: 3, BC: 127%, DR: 2
Gold: 232355 | RoLS: 1, RoL: 1, GoW: 1
HH: 1, CS: 2, IF: 4, Ev: 3, Re: 2, WP:DA: 1, WP:1S: 1, AP:L: 1, FS:DW: 2, S:DW: 1
SR

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Voom
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Re: End round at end of combat

Post by Voom » Wed Nov 02, 2016 6:26 pm

I have the same issue. I try to use as much meat as possible so I don't use up too much bonemeal. That's why I wait. You don't know how many 6 sec intervals I have counted.. and at no point does cooked meat become cheaper and worth while. Bonemeal is actually quite expensive.
The solution, I propose, is to have a new food staple that is as cheap as meat, but with more sustenance and no chance for food poisoning. Sold only at Remgard or something like that.
Voomster Lvl 23 |HP 52 |AC 173% |AD 17-52 |ECC 20% |CM 3.0 |BC 61% |DR 2 Build 2/3221/0

Voomboy Retired at 41 and is reading The Fey of Feygard
Voom Retired at 46 and took up translating

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rijackson741
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Re: End round at end of combat

Post by rijackson741 » Wed Nov 02, 2016 9:52 pm

Bonemeal potions are, for the HP boost, dirt cheap. 45 gp for 40 HP, instantly. Compare that to:
Major potion of health: 280 gp for 40HP, instantly,
Meat: 29 gp for 24 HP over 12 rounds, and a chance of FP.
Cooked meat: 78 gp for 33 HP over 11 rounds
Cooked perch: 150 gp for 32 HP over 8 rounds.
Level: 64, XP: 4734786, HP: 196, AC: 246%, AD: 49-59, AP: 3, ECC: 25%, CM: 3, BC: 127%, DR: 2
Gold: 232355 | RoLS: 1, RoL: 1, GoW: 1
HH: 1, CS: 2, IF: 4, Ev: 3, Re: 2, WP:DA: 1, WP:1S: 1, AP:L: 1, FS:DW: 2, S:DW: 1
SR

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Duvalon
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Re: End round at end of combat

Post by Duvalon » Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:25 am

Sustenance from meat regens during combat, but if you kill the enemy in the first round (and thus end combat) it doesn't. And the 6 second counter resets after combat so either you wait a full 6 seconds, or engage combat and miss the meat regen. It's a bit of a cheat for conditions like poison or bleeding wounds.

I'm OK with shadow regen being OP because it's hard to get, but also doesn't stack. Regen skill stacks and is far too powerful for something so easy to get; that is if it works even during combat or with adjacent enemies and high EV. I'm OK with the current nerfed regen.

The question of bonemeal potions being one of, if not the most cost effective (technically bread is cheaper, but isn't very useful past level 10 or so) is off topic and irrelevant to this idea.

Diabolic
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Re: End round at end of combat

Post by Diabolic » Thu Nov 03, 2016 7:56 am

I'm dirty cheap, so I actually bought only a handful of bonemeal potions and have (I think) never used them! I only heal via meat or regular health potions (that I farm from Allacephs or during RolS hunting). Hey, I only got around 40k gold (right now), have to feed the kids! ;)
Aside from that and to the point: I sometimes also thought about the "round end". I still don't know if it's good or bad... It actually bothered me more in the beginning. Now it is basically irrelevant!
LVL 46, AC 343%, BC 160%/1, DMG 26-42, AP 4/12, RolS: 1

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rijackson741
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Re: End round at end of combat

Post by rijackson741 » Thu Nov 03, 2016 2:07 pm

Duvalon wrote:Sustenance from meat regens during combat, but if you kill the enemy in the first round (and thus end combat) it doesn't. And the 6 second counter resets after combat so either you wait a full 6 seconds, or engage combat and miss the meat regen. It's a bit of a cheat for conditions like poison or bleeding wounds.
I'll take your word for it that it actually works that way. Actually, I misread the change log, and it says that the Regeneration skill only applies when not adjacent to a monster. The same change log also says actor effects are triggered every combat round, which absent any other information should mean sustenance. It sounds to me like a bug if it does not work if you kill the enemy in the first round. I assume it's triggered at the end of the round, both within combat and without. But entering combat within the 6 seconds or exiting combat by killing your enemy ends the round prematurely, so the conditions are not triggered. IMO, they should be triggered regardless of how the round is terminated.
Duvalon wrote:Regen skill stacks and is far too powerful for something so easy to get
The Regen skill does stack, but the Regen actor condition does not. There are in fact no positive conditions that stack. I disagree that the Regen skill is overpowered though, given that it only works when you are not next to a monster (presumably, why that change was made).
Level: 64, XP: 4734786, HP: 196, AC: 246%, AD: 49-59, AP: 3, ECC: 25%, CM: 3, BC: 127%, DR: 2
Gold: 232355 | RoLS: 1, RoL: 1, GoW: 1
HH: 1, CS: 2, IF: 4, Ev: 3, Re: 2, WP:DA: 1, WP:1S: 1, AP:L: 1, FS:DW: 2, S:DW: 1
SR

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Voom
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Re: End round at end of combat

Post by Voom » Thu Nov 03, 2016 2:41 pm

Bonemeal ain't cheap w/o meat to supplement it. I will use 2 bonemeal in lodar's cave for every let's say 2.5 Hithrials, but I don't get 80 gold back that quick.
B/c sustenance doesn't help once combat is over, use Corpse Eater. 2 skill points is good imo.
Voomster Lvl 23 |HP 52 |AC 173% |AD 17-52 |ECC 20% |CM 3.0 |BC 61% |DR 2 Build 2/3221/0

Voomboy Retired at 41 and is reading The Fey of Feygard
Voom Retired at 46 and took up translating

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