General changes suggestion

Unstructured ideas, requests and suggestions for the development of the game.
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Zukero
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android_version: 8.0
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Re: General changes suggestion

Post by Zukero » Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:17 pm

I liked the bad item idea better.

How about that: You need to pay for these items with a legendary or extraordinary item.

Imagine some mage that will take one of your extraordinary items and turn it into a lousy weapon (poor AP, poor AC, maybe some status affliction...) that give you the equivalent of two levels in MF. Same with one of your legendaries, but those are worth five levels.
That way, you have to pay the full price of grinding for at least one, but giving it up will help you find the others.
Lvl: 78, XP: 8622632, Gold: 271542, RoLS: 1, ElyR: -, RoL: -, ChaR: 1, GoLF: 1, ShaF: 1, SRoV: 1, VSH: 1, WMC: 1, GoW: 1
HP: 71, AC: 301%, AD: 38-47, AP: 3, ECC: 50%, CM: 3.75, BC: 101%, DR: 2

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rijackson741
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Re: General changes suggestion

Post by rijackson741 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 5:45 pm

There are several extraordinary items that you get as boss drops, so I think that would make it too easy to accumulate MF (assuming you are wiling to give up the unique boss drop extraordinaries to get the rare drop extraordinaries, anyway)
Level: 64, XP: 4734786, HP: 196, AC: 246%, AD: 49-59, AP: 3, ECC: 25%, CM: 3, BC: 127%, DR: 2
Gold: 232355 | RoLS: 1, RoL: 1, GoW: 1
HH: 1, CS: 2, IF: 4, Ev: 3, Re: 2, WP:DA: 1, WP:1S: 1, AP:L: 1, FS:DW: 2, S:DW: 1
SR

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Zukero
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Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:56 am
android_version: 8.0
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Re: General changes suggestion

Post by Zukero » Thu Mar 15, 2018 6:50 pm

Only the grindable L&E would work, and you'll be limited by what you can equip. If you get boots, there'll be no point in getting more than one.
Lvl: 78, XP: 8622632, Gold: 271542, RoLS: 1, ElyR: -, RoL: -, ChaR: 1, GoLF: 1, ShaF: 1, SRoV: 1, VSH: 1, WMC: 1, GoW: 1
HP: 71, AC: 301%, AD: 38-47, AP: 3, ECC: 50%, CM: 3.75, BC: 101%, DR: 2

Asmodee
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Re: General changes suggestion

Post by Asmodee » Fri Mar 16, 2018 3:08 pm

I don't mind grinding for it, but if you had to grind for Legendary items to make it easier to grind for Legendary items that kind of defeats the purpose. I would rather not feel like I had to use the kill/reload/repeat method to get any items. If the MF items were bad enough you could make them readily available. If, all told, the were to give, say, a -30 to damage then you're certainly not equipping them all anywhere near a low level.

And in my opinion levels in MF wouldn't be worth it. Personally, I think MF is a terrible skill. Grinding for L&E gear is something you do "afterward", after you've completed the content, most likely, because you need to be of sufficient level to do it. At that point it's too late to do much with MF. It would take 40 levels just to take it to 10, which is still less than a 1% chance for even Extraordinary items. So instead you have to plan when you're level 1 for what you're going to do post-game, which makes you sacrifice the wonderful exploration of the skills system. There are simply not enough Skill Points to even do what you want, much less experiment.

Currently the most common way to get all the gear is kill/reload/repeat, I think. I'm suggesting something to change that, not something to make you have to reload a dozen fewer times. Of course we all WANT to find all the L&E equipment. We've finished the content, but we're not quite ready to start over yet (by the way, truly exceptional job with that when my options after finishing are "keep killing things" or "start a new game", but not "quit playing").

When I do start over this time, I'm not putting any points in MF. It didn't matter anyway. I put 5 points in it and STILL had to kill/reload/repeat to find everything. While 5 points doesn't sound like much, remember that is 20 levels of skill points. That's over 1/3 of the levels you currently need to finish the content, maybe as much as (nearly) half. It was 2/5 of my character's progress when I started grinding for L&E items. And after wasting 2/5 of my progress on a single skill I STILL had to cheat (well, cheat-ish) MF is a useless skill. It doesn't help enough to make me not have to cheat anyway. I certainly would see pretty much zero benefit from "a level or two" in MF.

You see, on the surface MF looks balanced, but when you do the math it has vastly diminishing returns. Yes, the percentage of chance increase is uniform. For Legendary weapons it's always .005%. But start doing the math on how many creatures you have to kill on average to get a drop and you quickly see points in MF rapidly lose their effectiveness. At a .01% chance that is an average of 10,000 kills. Put 2 points in MF and you take it to a .02% chance, twice as good, half as many kills. So with just 2 points you've avoided, on average, 5,000 kills necessary with 5,000 left. But now it takes TWICE that many points to halve it again, and it's only half of the remaining half. Put 4 more points in MF, up to 6, and your chance becomes .04% with an average of 2,500 kills it will take. 2 points reduced it by 5,000. Then it took 4 points to reduce it by 2,500. Next it will take 8 points to reduce it by 1,250. Each time it takes twice as many points in MF as it did the time before to give you half the effect. And we're at 14 points, 56 levels. Now do the math on how many times you would have to kill the same three Plaguestrider Masters to bet both of Valugha's items. I would have to go through that single room killing the same 3 creatures about 74 times (74 runs through the room, 3 creatures each time, 222-223 creatures total) to get 2 drops, and then there's only a 50/50 chance I'll get one of each. At level 400 with 100 points in MF I would STILL only have a .51% chance of getting a Legendary item drop. There are other skills so powerful you've had to limit how many points can be put into them, but with MF you simply can't put enough points into it to make enough difference that you won't just kill/reload/repeat to get at least some of the gear. My current character has gone up about 27 levels in the Charwood mines. I do the 2 rooms before the pit and the 2 rooms after, before going down the second pit where I'll get lit on fire. With 5 levels in MF I have 4 Gems of Warmth. That's nearly 30 levels of grinding for 4 Extraordinary items, and that's WITH 5 points in MF. So as I said, MF is a useless skill.

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