Andor's Trail Project Meeting #43

Official news about Andor's Trail.
r0tt3nj4ck
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Re: Andor's Trail Project Meeting #43

Post by r0tt3nj4ck » Mon Feb 03, 2014 9:14 am

thank you for including my suggestion in this team meeting.
Last edited by r0tt3nj4ck on Mon Feb 03, 2014 1:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Zukero
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Re: Andor's Trail Project Meeting #43

Post by Zukero » Mon Feb 03, 2014 10:55 am

Easy, gentlemen, easy...

Not only is this drifting way off-topic (Team Meeting Report), but it's starting to get off-limits too... luckily, there's nothing personal yet.

@PK17 and ctnbeh13: I have to admit I also have times where reading the 1000th potion or weapon suggestion as a user's first post can be saddening, but keep in mind the "100:1 ratio": for 100 players, we will have 1 forum member, and for 100 forum members, we will see 1 new code/content contributor. The fact that many forum members are just excited people that had an idea about the new ultimate weapon or potion is nothing new, nor something specific to AT. IMHO, it simply shows the passion that players can have for AT, and we have to respect that, as it is what makes AT such a success.
Not everyone is a developer or a game designer. No need to disregard them, or show them any disrespect. After all, items and potions are also part of what is needed to write a quest or map, and creating them can be boring, so having a library of crowd-sourced ones can help at times :D
However, there are also quite a number of clever people, that like to have enlightened discussions about how to make the game better. I agree that we should develop the brainstorming side of this forum, and I believe the "Development Corner" is the perfect spot for it, as it limits inputs to people who at least asked for "developers" membership. There are some changes and improvements that have to happen to AT (especially in the beginning of the game as you mentioned PK17), and that could use some crowd-sourcing.

@r0tt3nj4ck: I also found some antagonism in your own post. Asking for "taking it to pm" (which IMHO is the digital equivalent of "meet me behind the pub") while asking to "Calm down" seems weird.

Let's all cool our heads down, and transform all this energy into working together for the greater good of AT.
Lvl: 78, XP: 8622632, Gold: 271542, RoLS: 1, ElyR: -, RoL: -, ChaR: 1, GoLF: 1, ShaF: 1, SRoV: 1, VSH: 1, WMC: 1, GoW: 1
HP: 71, AC: 301%, AD: 38-47, AP: 3, ECC: 50%, CM: 3.75, BC: 101%, DR: 2

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PK17
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Re: Andor's Trail Project Meeting #43

Post by PK17 » Tue Feb 04, 2014 5:17 pm

The main thing that got me was the latest priority survey. The next one should include a general survey and one just for the Dev Corner. I think that would show the huge difference in opinions as to the direction of the game. Nobody has the right to just start demanding content (besides Oskar really) and somehow people still do. So many good ideas fall by the wayside, or get put on the backburner. Another thing is that those ideas that get put on the backburner emerge again a year later, receive all kinds of support, and put on hold again, until the next time someone brings it up.

Making new content isn't exactly easy, but it isn't hard to learn. And with Zuk here with his contribution guide and being able to help others set up their environments I would have expected a bunch of others would take the leap. But, it seems many are willing to fool around on the forums (which they have every right to do). It is when those people, who spend hours on the forums, start demanding content but won't help, that's what gets me. They say they don't have time but they sit hovering the forum all day, is that not time.

But I digress, this is not the time now nor the place to have this discussion.
Take a stop by my game thread for some forum fun!!!

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Oet
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Re: Andor's Trail Project Meeting #43

Post by Oet » Tue Feb 04, 2014 7:54 pm

PK17 wrote:Making new content isn't exactly easy, but it isn't hard to learn. And with Zuk here with his contribution guide and being able to help others set up their environments I would have expected a bunch of others would take the leap. But, it seems many are willing to fool around on the forums (which they have every right to do). It is when those people, who spend hours on the forums, start demanding content but won't help, that's what gets me. They say they don't have time but they sit hovering the forum all day, is that not time.

First off, Zukero's contribution guide hasn't been out in public for too long, so to expect anything already is too much.

Also, I feel a bit hit (not personally) by the rest of your post. I will try to explain it from my point of view since I spend a lot of time on the forum without "contributing" as some other people do. I guess I can talk for more people then myself.
I work as a webmaster, which gives me a lot of time to spend by a computer. I would never start writing a quest nor develop anything at all while at work. What I instead do is I check the forum while drinking my coffee, or when resting my brain for a few minutes. Also, when I poop, I check the forum from my phone quite often. After work, I can barely find any time what so ever to contribute. I can't even hold a straight up mail exchange without huge delays on my answers.

Then, if I come up with an idea and post it on the forum (in your eyes "demanding") for some other people to throw some balls with, I don't want people to feel like it's a failure. You should be glad that some people actually care so much about AT that they sign up for the forum and come with ideas.

If you felt like I am trying to make you look bad, you read this post with the wrong eyes. I'm just trying to make you see this whole thing from another angle, because you seem a bit down.
Oet:
Lvl:80|XP:9214538|AP:3|HP:291|AC:351%|AD:51-68|CHS:20|CM:0|BC:135%|DR:1
WA:1|HH:1|Do:1|CS:2|CL:1|QL:3|CE:1|IF:6|Reg:1|WP:1S:1|AP:L:1|FS:DW:2|S:DW:1
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Last updated 22/01-14

ctnbeh13
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Re: Andor's Trail Project Meeting #43

Post by ctnbeh13 » Tue Feb 04, 2014 11:11 pm

Well, from what I've read, I see a fair amount of truth, and a fair amount of misunderstanding, which seems to have its source in personal perception, exposure to the forum material that was read, and experience. Unfortunately, truth shared based on a misunderstanding, usually just leads to confusion (What's that, did someone in the back row just make a crack about my posts? :shock: Well, that's fair.. :?)

I would very much like to address the contributing factors, but in doing so, my post would surely be deleted. The best I can say is simply to bring up the main point that's usually addressed in any literature class we've taken in school, which is essentially, "To write about the things you know, and ask about the things (to the best of your ability) regarding that which you don't."

You've seen references (or can find them, if you look) to "The Development Team", "The team", and various references to "The Forum Community", not to mention the other groups and titles found around here. In my wholehearted opinion, communication is the integral key to getting things done right and making true and measurable progress, just as it is required to maintain any relationship. That's something that I believe each and everyone of us has the ability to improve for the benefit of all, regardless of our individual label.

Well, I had better sign off here before this starts to read like a transcript from a 1950`s Union Rally (a familiar voice is heard again from the back row, "Too late!") .. :shock:
One of even fewer...

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PK17
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Re: Andor's Trail Project Meeting #43

Post by PK17 » Wed Feb 05, 2014 3:38 am

Oet wrote:
PK17 wrote:Making new content isn't exactly easy, but it isn't hard to learn. And with Zuk here with his contribution guide and being able to help others set up their environments I would have expected a bunch of others would take the leap. But, it seems many are willing to fool around on the forums (which they have every right to do). It is when those people, who spend hours on the forums, start demanding content but won't help, that's what gets me. They say they don't have time but they sit hovering the forum all day, is that not time.

First off, Zukero's contribution guide hasn't been out in public for too long, so to expect anything already is too much.

Also, I feel a bit hit (not personally) by the rest of your post. I will try to explain it from my point of view since I spend a lot of time on the forum without "contributing" as some other people do. I guess I can talk for more people then myself.
I work as a webmaster, which gives me a lot of time to spend by a computer. I would never start writing a quest nor develop anything at all while at work. What I instead do is I check the forum while drinking my coffee, or when resting my brain for a few minutes. Also, when I poop, I check the forum from my phone quite often. After work, I can barely find any time what so ever to contribute. I can't even hold a straight up mail exchange without huge delays on my answers.

Then, if I come up with an idea and post it on the forum (in your eyes "demanding") for some other people to throw some balls with, I don't want people to feel like it's a failure. You should be glad that some people actually care so much about AT that they sign up for the forum and come with ideas.

If you felt like I am trying to make you look bad, you read this post with the wrong eyes. I'm just trying to make you see this whole thing from another angle, because you seem a bit down.
You misunderstand, that wasn't a jab at the majority of forum dwellers. There used to be many more people doing what I mentioned, but now just a few. Maybe because I was just going through older posts I got the wrong impression of how things have changed. I still see it from time to time, some not as direct as others, but it still happens occasionally.

Coming up with an idea to get the ball rolling isn't demanding, that is a very useful tool in growing concepts to a point where they are tweaked and changed so they meld perfectly with the concept in place. I have had countless ideas stem from the ideas of others, some even just came from nowhere.

Like I said, not really the place to be discussing something like this, but I feel like I had to clear the air a bit.

Bring on Project Meeting #44, and don't forget to add any ideas to the "Ideas for the next meeting" thread. ;)

----

And as for what I mentioned about Zukero is that it is obvious he has become the man to ask when trying to contribute, whether his contribution guide is complete or not. I was hoping the concept of it would drive the initiative up in those anticipating trying to contribute, and convince them to get and early start. Maybe everyone is lurking, waiting for the guide to be finished, but I figured talk of it's completion would have spurred more.
Take a stop by my game thread for some forum fun!!!

http://andorstrail.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=4577

r0tt3nj4ck
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Re: Andor's Trail Project Meeting #43

Post by r0tt3nj4ck » Wed Feb 05, 2014 10:05 am

It's meeeeeeeeeee.
I'm the voice in the back row;)
I'm assuming you have or someone who does have the ability to read my initial post has shared its original version.
Well I edited it.
I love your intelligence ctnbeh13. Truly a rare gift and one to be respected and cherished.
A helpful tip? (For Everyone !)

My computer science professor at college use to say:

"Just because one woman can have a baby in nine months doesn't mean nine women can have a baby in one month."

My debate and forensics coach told me to never use two words when one would do.

Things get personal here and attacks start so fast because we all feel very passionate about this project.
But somehow I doubt the creators intent was to setup a forum community to farm game ideas from until the game is done.
Most people probably don't contribute content out of laziness. That's fair.
Some of those left who don't contribute don't do so out of time or other priorities.
The rest would. Would.
Zukero oh my goodness that contribution guide is sick. If you read it and follow it. Not only can you use zukeros guide to create content for andors trail... But he sets you up so well you can keep right on going.
The cool thing about PCs is that you already have everything you need to start programming if you are reading this message.

I want to be friends here. I want to create content. I want the game finished.

I just like andors trail.

I think we all do. Maybe everyone is allowed three thoughtful suggestions before all further ideas are met with the phrase :"Dev it yourself."
Would that make everyone happy?
Newbies can spout potions of everlasting health.
Some experienced people can delve into the game code they have been avoiding.
Hopefully some brilliant ideas will make their way to my device. Its what we all want anyway. Let's get there.

Sorry ctnbeh13. I'm rash and honestly a bit hateful. I don't want to be and is a demon of mine from before i was an adult. I like you and wasn't too be friends because you are sophisticated and smart ( not hitting on you ). Hopefully in time and can earn your respect too. ( I HATE being in the back row)
Click me for a look at my gift to the Andor's Trail Community...

Zukero
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Re: Andor's Trail Project Meeting #43

Post by Zukero » Wed Feb 05, 2014 3:11 pm

Glad to see this is all turning to friendly and productive discussion :D
Oh, and thanks everyone for the compliments on the contribution guide.... now go ahead and use it ! :lol:
Lvl: 78, XP: 8622632, Gold: 271542, RoLS: 1, ElyR: -, RoL: -, ChaR: 1, GoLF: 1, ShaF: 1, SRoV: 1, VSH: 1, WMC: 1, GoW: 1
HP: 71, AC: 301%, AD: 38-47, AP: 3, ECC: 50%, CM: 3.75, BC: 101%, DR: 2

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