Mino wrote:My only issue with 1 is that it revises the entire attack system
I agree.
And doing so would argue that it is currently broken. Yet I've not heard anyone complain that the entire attack system is intrinsically unfair. Rather, it is just that critical-based characters are currently overpowered.
I agree that changing the CC and CM now in the game is going to have a very negative effect on players who have thrown other stats such as BC, and HP out the window in hopes that they can get by with hi damage instead.
Instead of changing how the CC and CM are in the game, i suggest monsters that are resistant to Crits or even amune to them all together.
Idk. just an idea. Honestly if you were to change the CC and CM now it would most likely have a horrible effect on my build.
I do not agree with solution 1 at all, probably because I have not raised my critical hit chance by too much, and often use my level-up for AD. If the lower end of the range stays at 1 throughout the game, or say 5 with equipment, no matter how high your high-end is, you will have the effect of a miss on a high percentage of your hits. A hit of 5 or 10, or even 30, in the Irqhan cave is going to get you dead a lot. If you are trying to change the criticals, change the criticals, not the base damage we depend on for survival.
In my opinion, what is really unbalanced in the game is the quick learner skill, allowing people to level-up and skill-up at an astronomical rate, reaching over 500HP in the process. Who cares about critical hits or even base damage points if they can absorb 500 damage without dying?
Stopping the bottom of the AD from increasing is totally unfair, especially to those of us who have been trying to keep a balanced character with no one stat overpowered. Spreading the AD from 1-60 or 1-80 or whatever is in effect cutting the AC to half or a quarter because so many of your hits would do little or no damage, and might as well be misses.
IMO, this move would unbalance the game much more than leaving the critical hits alone would. Why bother playing at all if your attacks are totally undependable and at the whim of a random number generator? Say you have worked your way up a max AD of 80. With a min AD of 1, you will actually get hit of 80 in only one hit of every 80, with most hits doing 30-50 damage. In other words, you are really 40 levels behind, if you put all your level-ups into AD and let everything else go. No matter how high you raise your max AD, your average damage done will be about half that amount.
LVL 108; XP 23,138,749; Gold 1,827,209; 4/23/12 HP 130; AP 4/12; AC 328; AD 55-66; CC 9; CM 0; BC 127; DR 2 RoLS 4; RoL 2; ElyR 4; ChaR 11; GoLF 4; ShaF 4 S Rgn, SP: 1:CE,Ev,SM,EB,PB; 2:WA,HH,Cl,BS,MC,BC,CS,QL,IF,Rgn,MF
I have said this before and will continue saying it now: cap the "more criticals" and "better criticals" at say 3 skill-ups. Anybody over that limit gets their skill points back. Simple! !!! Oskar, you capped my favorite skill bark skin, why not cap the others?
If we must worry about how other players play their games, then I agree with tek that the simplest way is to cap both of the critical skills, and that 3 seems to be a good place for the cap.
If we are going to do that, however, I repeat that I think that the skill that has really unbalanced the game is quick learner, which would be pretty much impossible to fix now as far as I can see. Now that some players have 10 levels of QL, maybe more, and have therefore been able to race through game levels piling up huge amounts of everything that can be accumulated, I think that the high-score board should be eliminated. It has become mostly a measure of how many skill points a player has put into QL. And it is one of the main reasons (probably the main reason) for the mad accumulation of QL levels that has made these players totally invulnerable to any monster that would not inevitably kill all the rest of us with one hit. That, in my opinion, is much more unbalanced than how quickly a player can kill some existing monster because of high critical hits. It affects how the game will have to be built, which affects all of us. As far as I can see, high crits affect only the player with the high crits.
LVL 108; XP 23,138,749; Gold 1,827,209; 4/23/12 HP 130; AP 4/12; AC 328; AD 55-66; CC 9; CM 0; BC 127; DR 2 RoLS 4; RoL 2; ElyR 4; ChaR 11; GoLF 4; ShaF 4 S Rgn, SP: 1:CE,Ev,SM,EB,PB; 2:WA,HH,Cl,BS,MC,BC,CS,QL,IF,Rgn,MF
My opinion might be biased since I've used a few Skill Points on Quick Learner (8 so far), but I don't think it unbalances the game unless you want it to. The only difference from grinding and leveling up normally is that it slightly speeds up the process, but you still have to spend the time grinding either way. So if you don't want to become too strong, its still up to each player to just not to level up too much.
If someone with QL 10 spends 2 hours grinding, and someone with no QL spends 4 hours grinding, either way they're going to level up about the same (math might be wrong, but its just an example). And choosing QL means sacrificing a different skill that might be more beneficial immediately. The high score list isn't a serious thing with any kind of prize, it was just meant for fun, so I see no reason to remove the board either. I like looking at it not just for the levels, but also to see what everyone has used their level ups for (AD, AC, BC), and how many L&E items they have.
As far as being invulnerable, the only way QL would help there is for leveling up BC, and maybe HP, but I suspect a lot of the high HP we're seeing is from multiple levels of Increased Fortitude.
Basically, I'm not too concerned with balance because its a 1-player game, so if anyone doesn't want the game to be too easy, its up to them to limit themselves.
Mino wrote:
If someone with QL 10 spends 2 hours grinding, and someone with no QL spends 4 hours grinding, either way they're going to level up about the same (math might be wrong, but its just an example). And choosing QL means sacrificing a different skill that might be more beneficial immediately. The high score list isn't a serious thing with any kind of prize, it was just meant for fun, so I see no reason to remove the board either. I like looking at it not just for the levels, but also to see what everyone has used their level ups for (AD, AC, BC), and how many L&E items they have..
You need QL 20 to double your exp gain. And after this next QL increase your exp gain only 2,5% :/ It ia insane amount of skill points
+1 for highscore comments. It is just for fun and helps keeping forum active.
nyktos wrote:i am attacking the top ten without Quick Learner...
it's as gratifying as getting a full set without Magic Finder!
as for the question of balance...
getting criticals half the time (or more) is an oxymoron.
arent they supposed to be kinda rare?
finally, IMO... minimum damage should be left alone.
lady black nailed it.
just some thoughts...
I know the ElyR took you a while, but I'm impressed you got all those L&E items without any points in MF!
And speaking of which, and getting back to the topic, I think the 2 Legendary weapons are a good temptation away from the DotSP which is the big critical hit weapon of choice.
In fact, since I've left the Iqhan caves and am instead back at my old stomping grounds near BWM, I've switched back to the ElyR, which gets a nice boost from Cleave. And as you mentioned before ROL with speed potion has the same benefit.
I think another reason critical hits are so much more frequent in this version isn't just the More Criticals skill, its also the new equipment. In v0.6.8, the only item that increased critical chance was the RoLS which was very time consuming to get. Then in v0.6.9, we also saw the Ring of Strike and Ring of Vicious Strike. But now we have the Polished Ring of Backstabbing, Villain's Leather Armor, Troublemaker's gloves, and Necklace of Strike. If you equip all of those you get 26% cc, on top of whatever weapon you use. If that weapon is the DotSP (20% cc) you already have 46%, even without the More Criticals skill. Even assuming you don't switch out the Jewel of Fallhaven, you still have 41%, so almost half your hits are critical.
I'm not saying don't cap the More Criticals skill, but I think offering more weapons (not just L&E ones) that offer other valuable or even just fun elements (inflicting conditions) might get people to not just stick with a critical hit character.
