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Re: Translation in German

Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 7:13 pm
by Nut
Hello Firefly,

helping hands are always welcome.

As Zukero said, the actual release of AT does not contain the latest translations.
End of 2014 Mayweed and I got all the untranslated text entries translated. I forgot how many, maybe something between 1000 and 2000. So that would be about 20% or 30% which is still in English in the actual AT release.
We concentrated on the still English part. Already translated entries we changed only a few.

You said the translation is a bit akward. Do you mean the mixture of English and German parts? This is done, as I said.
Or do you mean already German texts? If you are willing to do, we might work through the whole 6378 translations again.

I would prefer working as a team, like Mayweed and I did last year: Mayweed did some translations, and I proofreaded, and vice versa. For some phrases the translation suggestions changed several times, and sometimes needed some discussion, until we both were content. It took some time but it enhances Quality. And it was great fun.
We worked independantly. I revised the translated entries of Mayweed, and after that I translated some myself. Mayweed did the same, and so we got it done rather quckly.

Google translator? No. To get good quality the translations have to be done manually. Maybe with the help of google translator or leo, but only to get some suggestions.

If you want to help, I think it best to read + do as Mayweed wrote earlier in this thread on 2014-09-02.

At the moment I am waiting for the next AT release, which should contain our translations. Then I'll start with a new figure and enjoy playing :D
Of course next release will contain parts in English again - the new content. But it would be no use trying to translate these newer parts without having played it. (And it would also take much fun out of the game for me...)
So next translation sessions of English content would be some time after next AT release, I think.

Re: Translation in German

Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 8:45 pm
by Firefly84
I once planned to become a foreign language correspondence clerk for English, but the training got to few members. However, the teachers recommended It works with context - so you haven't so much to think about as with LEO.
With this the German translation will become more enjoyable and the game better understandable.

Just let me know, when the next translation season begins and send me the actual links. I'm searching for a job - litterally. :(
Lvl: 96, XP: 16311398, RoLS: 1, ElyR: 1, ChaR: 1, GoLF: 1, ShaF: 1, VSH: 1, WMC: 1, GoW: 1
HP: 374, AC: 231%, AD: 77-86, CM: 13, BC: 94%, DR: 2

Re: Translation in German

Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:53 pm
by Nut
Here a question about a translation of "Gargoyle":

At the moment "Gargoyle" is not translated, as it it often the case in fantasy literature. I myself didn't know until this year.
Now someone in Weblate proposed it as "Wasserspeier" (firefly, was it you?)

At first it sounded a bit strange, because I spent so much time in some cave with these creatures and got used to their name.
But "Wasserspeier" is correct indeed.

I discussed it with mayweed and wants to quote him here (in German, please forgive me):
Gargoyles sind Wasserspeier. Die Bezeichnung wurde aus dem Französischen ins Englische übernommen, dort wird es "gargouille" oder so ähnlich geschrieben und ist sprachlich verwandt mit unserem "gurgeln". In der wirklichen Welt sind sie vor allem an gothischen Kathedralen zu finden und dort ist im Deutschen die Bezeichnung Wasserspeier die übliche.

In Rollenspielen ist mir das allerdings noch nicht begegnet, dort sind mir bisher immer nur Gargoyles über den Weg gelaufen. Das kann natürlich auch damit zusammenhängen, dass ich sie vor allem aus den alten Goldbox-RPGs kenne und es die nur in Englisch gab.

In Fantasyromanen kommt es aber auch schon mal vor, dass Wasserspeier lebendig werden und dort werden sie dann auch so bezeichnet. Man könnte also spekulieren, dass sie ursprünglich am Schattentempel in Nor angebracht waren, lebendig geworden und abgehauen sind und dann in der Höhle Zuflucht gesucht haben. Von daher habe ich nichts gegen eine Übersetzung. Allerdings gibt das im Deutschen zum Teil elendig lange Namen (und dadurch eventuell Platzprobleme). Da gargoyle eigentlich nur "Gurgler" bedeutet, wie wäre es damit, das Medium zu variieren, das hervorgegurgelt wird?

gargoyle ==> Wasserspeier
ash gargoyle ==> Aschenspeier
shadow gargoyle ==> Schattenspeier

I myself thought this change of translation a bit irritating at first. Now after I got used to it, I really like it.
E.g. "Aschespeier" is really a nice translation, much better than "Aschewasserspeier".
But I am not sure if such change of translation would be too strange, especially because this cave is such a prominent place (->RolS).

So German players, please help to decide:
Should we use Wasserspeier, Aschenspeier, Schattenspeier instead of Gargoyle?

Re: Translation in German

Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:04 pm
by Firefly84
Great discussion. I really like those translations.
It might have been my suggestion then.
I think I even made one for the Chaos Reaper.
In German Reaper means "Sense" (Scythe).
So the concept of it being a scepter is irritating.

Re: Translation in German

Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:08 pm
by Tomcat
Doesn't Wasserspeier refer to their function as water spouts, rather than their monstrous appearance?

Re: Translation in German

Posted: Wed May 31, 2017 8:27 pm
by Kashim
From my understanding, Wasserspeier is a compound word. The root "speier" is what actually means gargoyle, while "Wasser" means water. I would go with just Speier, Aschspeier, and Schattspeier if you're going to make your own words. The reason I've removed the "-en" from the words is because in my experience with German compound words like that, it tends to drop the (potential)plurality created by the en (the word for "shadow" is Schatten, but that's also the word for "shadows", which is something German likes to do a lot). This would drop the ambiguity between "Shadows Gargoyle" and "Shadow Gargoyle". When I read "Aschenspeier" I read it as "Gargoyle of Ashes" rather than "Ash Gargoyle" because of the plurality of Aschen.

I'm by no means an expert, so take this all with a grain of salt. I had 2 years of German in middle school, and 4 in high, but none since then, and I've only traveled to Germany once a couple of years ago. Other than that, I don't really use it much, though I try to keep myself sharp whenever possible.

Re: Translation in German

Posted: Wed May 31, 2017 10:50 pm
by Firefly84
"Schatten" is both singular and plural.
And to shorten "Schatten" and "Aschen" is just ridiculous. It's sounds really bad.
Water and "Asche" (ash) is similar, it's a pile of burned dust or coal or bones or wood. (or many droplets)
Perhaps you should let the final translation to us German translators. (I don't know how to make it better understandable.)

Re: Translation in German

Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 1:51 pm
by Kashim
Sure, I yield to better translators, or people who natively speak German, was just throwing in my 2 cents.

Re: Translation in German

Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 9:24 am
by Nut
In the meantime I have spoke to several friends - no AT Player - asking their opinion of "Wasserspeier" as translation. Most thought that it sonds too harmless. Not even one preferred it to "Gargoyle".
Now I don't see enought points for changing the existing translation, and would vote to leave it that way.

I read your post with much interest, always like views from outside to the native language.
Once I read a French school book about learning German - really funny what complicate things we have, and whith what strange rules no one ever use today pupils are tortured :lol:
Btw. my grandma indeed used to say "Ascheimer" for the thing you throw your waste in. On the other hand I never heard of "Aschbecher".