prop 8

[Mety]

Hi from bratislava to wien

[sorrow]

Well mety we have physcos here in America. And America is caught in a rock and a hard place. You see we convo take away and destroy all the guns in the us. But (and this is the part that 90% of Americans don't understand) you take all the guns away from the good guys and bad guys. What's gonna happen? The bad guys will just go over the boarder to Mexico buy guns from the cartels and bring them back here. Ok now these bad guys have all the guns and no one in America has a gun. The death toll you see on the news now would b greater if no one in America had guns. Does this make some sense to?

Ya we use guns for hunting and other sports but we also use them for protection. Its been a long time sense I herd this but in AZ there was a town that there crime rate was 0% and that's because they made it illegal not to carry a gun. When that law was passed for them crime rate soared it was the highest in the country. Then in one years time it dropped to 0. Reason was all the bad guys were dead and.sense everyone knew that everyone else was carrying a gun they learned respect really fast.

[Mety]

Allright about what you telling had sense but i telling you only about danger when people here had guns because we are doesn't have tradition but we are living in different country and you can't understand my feelings about guns and can't understand your opinion that is about culture difference

[sorrow]

Oh ok I was just trying to explain that's all lol.

[nyktos]

this thread makes me nervous!



in settings like these, i try to avoid discussions about religion or politics...
there are forums overrun with trolls & flame-wars because the wrong topic came up

i would not want to visit a forum like that,
much less moderate one.



and thinking on it,
this topic isn't really family friendly...
or is it?

it's hard for me to take a stance here,
because of my own personal feelings on the issues raised.

[sorrow]

As long as we can stay civilized it can be a family friendly topic.

[boots-nz]

New Zealand past the Civil Union law in 2005 it has give gay couples the freedom of other recognized married couples Im not sure if there has been any recognized by any churches but the general opinion is that it was a good move for our country. All personal views aside if ppl love eachother why not let them be married?

[Mino]

Prop 8 was actually trying to make same sex marriage illegal. Before that, some cities in California, notably San Francisco was marrying same sex couples, meaning they could get a marriage license and be legally recognized as being married. Proposition 8 was to make same sex marriages illegal, and was passed by vote.

Later, it was brought to the state supreme court on the grounds that it was unconstitutional because it was basically making one group of people not equal under the law. The state supreme court agreed and overturned Prop 8. The backers of Prop 8 took it to the US Supreme Court, where they basically said they wouldn't interfere with the state level court's decision, effectively making same sex marriage legal again.

As far as the separation of Church & State, I feel like too many people forget about that. Maybe I notice it more because while I'm not super religious, it's not a church-based religion. But since many churches can influence their congregations, who can then influence their politicians through voting or funding, you'll see things that don't seem like a separation taking place.

As far as forcing a church, they can't do that. But in the US there's 2 kinds of marriage.
1) A legal marriage, meaning you can go to any courthouse and get a marriage license and the state and country recognize you as married.

2) A Church (or any religious) marriage, where you follow whatever the religious ritual is. This isn't recognized by the government unless you also get the marriage license required by the state.

So you could get married in a church but not be married on paper, and each church can make the choice of who they allow that service to. You can also get married in the legal sense without stepping foot in a church.

[Pyrizzle]

That was very well put Mino. =)

[sorrow]

Hope that clears everything up thanks mino