This game needs to be totally rebalanced

Discussions of the development process of the game.
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rijackson741
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Re: This game needs to be totally rebalanced

Post by rijackson741 »

Lich King wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 9:38 pm I see we can't agree in the question of weapons. Well, it wasn't even my main concern, altrough I still hold that the wast majority of them are garbage, including all two handed and high AP cost ones, while sadly those with decent damage output are usuall high AP cost.
It is impossible to make all the weapons (or anything else) equally good. Many are just filler items, because seeing the exact same 10 weapons in every shop would be really boring. There are very good high AP weapons though. You just haven't found them (perhaps because you have not progressed far enough in the game?).
Lich King wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 9:38 pm But what about potions and health items in general?
As for health items, both food and potions, Rijackson, even you recommended me to just get the Regeneration skill instead of using them. (Wich I did before you told me to, becouse I'm kind of forced to.) I still can't understand how you can justify the high prices, when even you agree that they are not affordable: if a player should rely on them then he would spend all his gold on them and it wouldn't even be enough, and nothing remained for equipment.
If the expected strategy is that you live on bread and raw meat and Regeneration and the illegal bonemeal, then what's the point of having all the other stuff? What's the point of having 50 kind of food items when knowing that the player won't buy any of them? What's the point of even having health potions when they are unaffordable, having a cost of some 8 GP/HP?
Early in the game gold is indeed an issue. Since you just left a farmhouse in a small village that should not be surprising. As you progress, it becomes much less of an issue, and most players end up with gold they don't know how to spend by the time they have completed existing content. AT is a RPG, but it is also a strategy game. Potions of health are useful (and in many monster drop lists, so you can farm for them), but they are not intended to be a single solution to HP loss.
Lich King wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 9:38 pm And what do you have against buff potions?
It would be nice to have stuff like Haste potion (gives +6 AP for 10 turns), Attacker's potion (raises AC for some turns), Defender's potion (raises BC for some turns), Strength potion (raises damage for some turns), Warior's potion (raises both AC and BC for some turns), and stuff like that. And maybe stuff that raises critical, adds poison damage, etc. Also potions that remove harmful effects.
Right now what do we have instead? A very few potions that have a slight resemblace to those above, but all of them also have so nasty side effects that they do more harm than good, and they have such a high cost that one would think twice before using them even in a hard boss battle. Might as well not even have them, becouse no player in their right mind would buy them.
A potion that gave +6AP for 10 turns would be grossly OP unless it's either available in very limited quantity or obscenely expensive. There are buff potions. I'm not sure which ones you are referring to that have the nasty side effects. There are also many potions that remove harmful effects (at least nine of them).
Level:71, XP:6493739, PV:608, FQ:84
HP:210, AC:212, AD:58-77, AP:4, ECC:16%, CM:1.5, BC:188, DR:3
Gold: 237559 | RoLS:1, RoL:1, GoW:1, VSH:1, RoFLS:1, WoB:1
HH:1, WA:1, CS:2, Cl:1, IF:4, Ev:3, Re:2, WP:DA:1, WP:1S:1, WP:B:1, AP:L:1, FS:DW:2, S:DW:1
Lich King
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Re: This game needs to be totally rebalanced

Post by Lich King »

rijackson741 wrote: Thu May 27, 2021 11:58 am It is impossible to make all the weapons (or anything else) equally good. Many are just filler items, because seeing the exact same 10 weapons in every shop would be really boring. There are very good high AP weapons though. You just haven't found them (perhaps because you have not progressed far enough in the game?).
I think a big issue (at least for me) here is that you need 12 AP to get the full potential of the weapons, but you can't get that before lv 30, wich is quite late into the game. 4 AP cost is no advantage with less than 12 AP, 6 AP weapons are meant for two swings but have only one with less than 12 AP. And even 5 AP wepons can't be used with armores with AP penality with less than 12 AP. Combat speed L2 is a must, and yet you can't have it before lv 30.
Another thing that bugs me is that anything that's "too good" gets some serious penality in compensation, but usually the penality overcompensates the advantages. I refer to the talk in the "No rest for the guilty" thread. Also take Llegaris for example. I don't know if he is there to troll the player or you seriously thought his stuff is good. So, he sells special weapons, so special that you have to prove yourself worthy to trade with him. And yet all his weapons are garbage. Those that seem good at first glance turn out to have some serious penality that make them useless. And there are many more examples everywhere.
rijackson741 wrote: Thu May 27, 2021 11:58 am Early in the game gold is indeed an issue. Since you just left a farmhouse in a small village that should not be surprising. As you progress, it becomes much less of an issue, and most players end up with gold they don't know how to spend by the time they have completed existing content. AT is a RPG, but it is also a strategy game. Potions of health are useful (and in many monster drop lists, so you can farm for them), but they are not intended to be a single solution to HP loss.
It's probably just me but I don't buy overpriced stuff even if I could afford it, out of principle. Both IRL and in games. And 320 GP health potion is definitely overpriced when it does the same as a 51 GP Bonemeal potion. And it can get even a rich character broke very quickly if they plan on using them for anything but emergency.
rijackson741 wrote: Thu May 27, 2021 11:58 am A potion that gave +6AP for 10 turns would be grossly OP unless it's either available in very limited quantity or obscenely expensive. There are buff potions. I'm not sure which ones you are referring to that have the nasty side effects. There are also many potions that remove harmful effects (at least nine of them).
+6 AP would give one (1) extra swing with most weapons, from 4 to 8 AP cost (or even 9 if you have 12 base AP). I don't consider one extra swing OP.
Other potions? Well, I didn't get to Lodar yet so I don't know what he can make (but he is hard AF to reach so his potions should be special, and we are talking about general ones). In other places, in most places there is only health potion or nothing at all. There is a potionmaker in Stoutford, but his potions have nasty side effects. Cures one illness, gives another, etc. And the other place is Lowyna's hidden tavern, and those drinks too have nasty side effects while their main effect isn't even that good. And I don't rememner finding anything else, and only Blackwater and Remgard are the places I haven't been yet.
rijackson741 wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 1:42 am "Evasion". My main build has three levels of it. That means I can stand next to a monster forever, and unless it tries to move onto my tile, it will never attack. It also means that if I choose to flee, I have only a 5% chance of failure (with 4 levels, it would be 0%)
I don't think it worths 3 skill points to not have monsters attack you in a game that's in part about killing monsters. Better spend them on something that gives a real advantage and you can fight the big boss normally.
Strategically placed NPCs bother me a lot more than wandering monsters attacking. They are placed in locations where you are guaranteed to bump into them even when you try very carefuly circumnavigating them, and sometimes even just getting to the nearby square initiates conversation. If there was a skill that shuts up NPCs that have nothing to say, I'd spend a point on that. Maybe it could be called "Antisocial".
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Antison
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Re: This game needs to be totally rebalanced

Post by Antison »

So do you enjoy the game? It's beginning to sound like you are not.

I agree with you to a certain degree when it comes to your criticisms on the negative effects on weapons. I feel like far too many have -BC for example. The bigger weapons should have positive BC as you are more likely to be able to block with a bigger weapon.
"A home without a beagle is just a house"
Lich King
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Re: This game needs to be totally rebalanced

Post by Lich King »

Do you think I'd write this much if I hated the game? Nah, I'd just delete it then and never think about it again.
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Re: This game needs to be totally rebalanced

Post by Nut »

Indeed there are several ways to get a good character. When I started playing, it seemed common agreement that 2x combat speed is a must, and I got a good build with it. The next game I chose Taunt as goal and took the skills needed for it. This build was totally different but nevertheless very successful too.
Same with weapons/armour/jewelry combination.
Some players learn healing skills, others rely on potions and need massive gold.
There is no best item, no best way to play, which is a strength of AndorsTrail.
Yes, there are many items or skills I'd never choose, but maybe someone finds them useful, be it only because it fits to his role.
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rijackson741
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Re: This game needs to be totally rebalanced

Post by rijackson741 »

You can farm for minor vials of health. They are common enough that my main build currently has over 700 of them! But I agree, other health potions are expensive. Be aware that bonemeal use does not come without a cost though.

If you use JoF then +6AP will give you two extra swings with many weapons, and 3 extra swings with the QSD (which was already OP until we introduced the DM, and nerfed it).
You can replace the potion maker in Stoutford with a better one, by completing quests there
Level:71, XP:6493739, PV:608, FQ:84
HP:210, AC:212, AD:58-77, AP:4, ECC:16%, CM:1.5, BC:188, DR:3
Gold: 237559 | RoLS:1, RoL:1, GoW:1, VSH:1, RoFLS:1, WoB:1
HH:1, WA:1, CS:2, Cl:1, IF:4, Ev:3, Re:2, WP:DA:1, WP:1S:1, WP:B:1, AP:L:1, FS:DW:2, S:DW:1
Lich King
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Re: This game needs to be totally rebalanced

Post by Lich King »

rijackson741 wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 8:55 pm If you use JoF then +6AP will give you two extra swings with many weapons, and 3 extra swings with the QSD (which was already OP until we introduced the DM, and nerfed it).
We are talking about a limited time so this is still not much of a concern. Also JoF is not that great, it takes the place of powerful protective necklaces. I don't use it. QSD is also not that great (maybe it was before getting nerfed, idk), I tried it combined with the JoF, but it's high frequency is negated by it's very low damage output, so in the end you are not much better off, only you need to tap more.

As for Stoutford I think I know what you are talking about, but that too is only available for high level players.
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rijackson741
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Re: This game needs to be totally rebalanced

Post by rijackson741 »

Each to their own. JoF or Marrowtaint (which you may not have had a chance to get yet) is used by many players, but not all.

Yes, you have to do some work to get powerful potions of resistance. They will not be made available early. For the early ones, the cure is better than the disease, so they still have value.
Level:71, XP:6493739, PV:608, FQ:84
HP:210, AC:212, AD:58-77, AP:4, ECC:16%, CM:1.5, BC:188, DR:3
Gold: 237559 | RoLS:1, RoL:1, GoW:1, VSH:1, RoFLS:1, WoB:1
HH:1, WA:1, CS:2, Cl:1, IF:4, Ev:3, Re:2, WP:DA:1, WP:1S:1, WP:B:1, AP:L:1, FS:DW:2, S:DW:1
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Re: This game needs to be totally rebalanced

Post by Soullessktty »

Antison wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 5:13 pm The bigger weapons should have positive BC as you are more likely to be able to block with a bigger weapon.
Actually, if you ever swing a big heavy sword like a claymore in real life, you know that when your swing miss, you have to follow through the motion and that leaves you vulnerable to any incoming attacks. It is very hard to stop or change direction in mid swing with two handed weapons, unlike smaller and lighter weapons. So, having negative BC due to high damage is a trade off. You cannot have everything in real life. Unless you are a jedi with lightsaber :mrgreen:
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Re: This game needs to be totally rebalanced

Post by Nocturne »

For me Yatagan was the best weapon for early cause it have a low ap cost and high damage also a critical multiplier, it was best against tough mobs but I only concern was it's hard to level up....I'm still at level 30 and I've got better items
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