Music links/feedback (Formerly "Adding music? From a noob")

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Musibox-the-1st
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Music links/feedback (Formerly "Adding music? From a noob")

Post by Musibox-the-1st »

Hi! I'm a journeyman musician who's interested in helping add music to the game (if there isn't already and my game is just bugged lol). I am able to comply to any restrictions that are imposed (8-bit, lyrical, even add a melody to a poem should it be required).

I'd be less enthused about helping with the following but I am also able to make sound effects and/or animations should it be desired. The only weakpoints I see are time, file formats, and where to upload the work.

Is this the place where I volunteer for what I offer? I sent an email a few days ago and received no response.

Edit: music got passed! for easy links (feedback is encouraged, here or there!):
Main theme idea: https://youtu.be/-BVx2-2Hz3g
"Crossglen": https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=crst2jthl08
(Appropriate downloads coming in a[n 8-]bit)

Latest update July 9th, check Main theme :D
Last edited by Musibox-the-1st on Sat Jul 10, 2021 12:05 am, edited 8 times in total.
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Re: Adding music? From a noob

Post by rijackson741 »

Sorry about the lack of response to your email. I honestly don't recall seeing it, but the public email address gets a lot of spam (not surprisingly!), and it may have just been dumped into our spam folders.

Music has come up before. From our point of view, there are pros and cons. The upside is obvious. We would have music. There are some downsides though. One is that it would add to the size of the game, and we strive to support old devices in developing countries. We could get around that though, by making the music download optional, so if a player has an old device with little memory they can forego the music. The other main downside (and it's the one that concerns me the most) is what do we do if the composer leaves the project? Aside from the install size issue, we have no music now because we have nobody to compose it. What happens if we add music, but then the composer leaves the project? This is a very real concern. None of the original dev team actively work on this game anymore. It is all volunteer work, so contributors are free to move on to other things at any time. They come and they go. The game development continues only as long as volunteers have the time and the desire to work on it. If we only have one composer, what happens if they (in this case you) leaves?
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Musibox-the-1st
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Re: Adding music? From a noob

Post by Musibox-the-1st »

Uh... it's not like I would withdraw my music from the game, even if I got offended I won't withdraw the work (only exception is if current managers (par se) of this game prove arrogant or contrary to forum rules).

If you're cautious because you/the team have spent time prepping for music that never arrived you can prepare a list of all the areas, with a general vibe (aka "surprised!" "calm," etc), and require the volunteer to send a link by Youtube or something with all of the music at once before you prep. That way after that list it's no extra work on your end and you can just forward that list to the next me that comes along.

I think music/sound is such a wonderful multiplier to the charm and feel of a game, a movie, or a clip, and I'm sorry my personality type hasn't delivered on our promises. I do know that what I'm asking to do is probably a huuuuge task on both ends, so I can post active SoundCloud links in case I drop (I'll also look for other such links on surrounding forums).
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Re: Adding music? From a noob

Post by CUCHULAINN3 »

Wouldn't the format of it be midi, so it wouldn't make the app too large?
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Re: Adding music? From a noob

Post by Antison »

I completely against the addition of music and sound affects for every game I play on Android for a multitude of reasons.
  • I often play in situations where the sounds would disturb others around me
  • It drains the battery
  • I hate having to go into the settings to shut it off.
  • If you want music, there are apps for that
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Re: Adding music? From a noob

Post by rijackson741 »

I guess if there are preset pieces of music that we could add where needed, then as long as it's a complete set then once it's done, it's done. I don't think there's anything in the game engine to handle music though, and I don't know how much work it would be to add it.
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Re: Adding music? From a noob

Post by Musibox-the-1st »

Uh...I'm getting a "purely developer, no player allowed" vibe... okay..So... Imma just going to give a quick link for a "resume" of sorts https://youtu.be/S3cIAOK-zUQ and state that none of what I write HAS to be in the game. I just like making music and if I can find someone to learn cooperation from and/or help write music for it can be a huge plus for both me and they.
CUCHULAINN3 wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 2:48 am Wouldn't the format of it be midi, so it wouldn't make the app too large?
I don't know the engine the app runs on, but I do that 8-bit/chiptune is the historical storage-saving medium, so I can write for 8-bit and whoever implements my stuff can put it in a file with the most compression and it should still be fine.
Antison wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 10:53 am I'm completely against the addition of music and sound effects for every game I play on Android for a multitude of reasons.
  • I often play in situations where the sounds would disturb others around me
  • It drains the battery
  • I hate having to go into the settings to shut it off.
  • If you want music, there are apps for that
I've had problems with my phone batteries and (extremely) light sleepers before so I understand (aka my dad growing up. That man could hear you from outside the house), but to counter for my own side of the argument, here's why I think personalized music/sound effects are extremely beneficial to an app:
  • It makes the world sooo much more alive.
  • It helps promote word-of-mouth advertising. (i.e. "what song is that?, "hey I play that game too!" etc)
  • creates immersion, and thus makes it more fun to the average player.
  • cements the player in the right era (like style of music), place and mood.
/\/\/\/\/\/\/
To be clear: I love music, making it, and seeing games thrive, but note that each of these loves are independent of each other. I think that this game will thrive with music/sound effects and thus I'm ecstatic to make it, but really, I can post the work to my YouTube/Soundcloud for optional download and you guys can take a year to implement it (or flat-out reject it), and I wouldn't mind that much.

If I am allowed to proceed, my next question would be about criticism about the music, as I don't want to make sound that doesn't suit your images of the game world (or worse, music for a different game altogether), but that might be presumptuous at the moment.
Last edited by Musibox-the-1st on Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Adding music? From a noob

Post by rijackson741 »

Musibox-the-1st wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 11:56 pm Uh...I'm getting a "purely developer, no player allowed" vibe... So... Imma just going to give a quick link for a "resume" of sorts https://youtu.be/S3cIAOK-zUQ and state that none of what I write HAS to be in the game.
That is 100% not the case. The original developer of this game is long gone. Every developer that is currently on the team started as a player, and then got interested in contributing content or code enhancements, or both. We all do it because we actually find creating new game material more rewarding than just playing the game :)
Musibox-the-1st wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 11:56 pm I just like making music and if I can find someone to learn cooperation from and/or help write music for it can be a huge plus for both me and they.
I agree. That's why I create content for the game. But you should be aware that there are zero professional game developers involved in this project. So when I say that I don't know what code changes would be necessary to include music, I am just being honest. I haven't got a clue. I'll bring it up with the dev team though.

I am not against music, it's been asked for many times and turning it off in the options if you don't want it is a minimal amount of effort.
Musibox-the-1st wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 11:56 pm I don't know the engine the app runs on, but I do that 8-bit/chiptune is the historical storage-saving medium, so I can write for 8-bit and whoever implements my stuff can put it in a file with the most compression and it should still be fine.
The engine is specific to AT. Maybe the original developer put in some hooks for music, but I don't think so. It is something we would have to add to the code. Since everything is voluntary with AT, that means we would not only need your music contribution, but also a (possibly significant) code contribution. I am not a Java programmer, so I can't do that.
Musibox-the-1st wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 11:56 pm To be clear: I love music, making it, and seeing games thrive, but note that each of these loves are independent of each other. I think that this game will thrive with music/sound effects and thus I'm ecstatic to make it, but really, I can post the work to my YouTube/Soundcloud for optional download and you guys can take a year to implement it (or flat-out reject it), and I wouldn't mind that much.

If I am allowed to proceed, my next question would be about criticism about the music, as I don't want to make sound that doesn't suit your images of the game world (or worse, music for a different game altogether), but that might be presumptuous at the moment.
OK. Also to be clear, the hurdle to do this is not just you creating the music. There is not much point in you doing that if we do not have someone that is willing to make the necessary code changes to integrate it. I'll ask the dev team.
If it comes back as "no", that does not even mean we are against music in the game. It just means that when we weigh our priorities, music did not win. Every player also wants Feygard and Nor City, and any other content we can produce. We have a huge amount of work needed for those, and the dev team is not large.

Personally, I would like to see music as an option, as long as it does not bloat the game size too much (which I now believe would probably not be the case). But there would be some work required to make that happen, from more than one contributor.
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Re: Adding music? From a noob

Post by Musibox-the-1st »

@rijackson741 I apologize I wasn't "refuting" explicitly you, but for the other two. The weird thing is that It's not even supposed to be a "refute." I find others not on the same page and I seek to bring them there, (by compromise, explanation, etc.) which in the past few months has made people very debatable for some reason, so I've been trying to figure that out.

But, I didn't realize I stumbled onto a community that is still very strong, even though it's been 10 years and the current development team is small. I took this a community that had a boom and almost dissapeared, but developers were still active, so I took you three as the developers haha.

In that case I'll wait and have fun making music, whether for the Trail or not I'll wait and see lol.

([Breathes deeply] and if my reply came across as insulting to you two, then I apologize. It's not intentional)
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Re: Adding music? From a noob

Post by rijackson741 »

After discussion within the dev team, the overall vote seems to be for music. So far we do not have a volunteer to do the necessary coding, but we will work on that. With no guarantee of success though. The dev team is small, and only two have the coding skills that are probably necessary for this. Some of their time is currently getting sucked up by code changes that are required by Google for security reasons.
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