Tweaking/Balancing Monster XP (grading on a curve)

[phydeaux]

AT already has a kill counter on each monster... It's just unused in the game right now... But your savegame holds a list of every monster you've killed and how many of them you' ve killed.
As far as tweaking mobs, there are a few ways to do it that I can think of off the top of my head, the simplest being

Code: Select all

 int ( 1+(kill counter/100))*stats

On the easy side to adding levels to mobs and leveling them up for every 2 or 3 levels the pc is over them... More involved, but cleaner... Been trying to find the time to actually code this, but the life of a taxi driver is extremely unpredictable...

Btw, that's an increase on all stats, including xp gained from kill

[Sarumar]

The idea is that xp isn't just a number that you gain, the full word is actually "experience" and as you go through life getting more experienced, things that used to be difficult aren't as much so anymore. Easy example: potty training. Back when you were just a wee child, using the bathroom was a challenging and daunting task which you had to learn how to do. As time has progressed, you probably don't even think about it anymore. It's just something you do without actually learning anything new.

Apply this to monsters. Yes, the first 1000 times you kill an ant you may be learning from it but I'd be willing to be you learned less the 1000th time than you did the 1st time. In other words, you gain less experience from killing a monster that you learned how to kill a year ago and by now could kill in your sleep.

Nice explanation, but I disagree. I like to see this more in learn by doing. Examble in any martial arts, repetition of movement over and over again is a key factor. 1000 times is just a start

And about of potty training... try do it now and Indeed, you will earn some exp

There are two problems with moving to a system like this:

1) AT doesn't currently have "levels" for monsters (that I can tell) so the standard "compare levels" method for scaling xp won't work. Of course it should be fairly simple to add a kill counter and just scale the xp on the number of kills but that runs into problems of it's own so I would definitely recommend some kind of "monster level" before switching to a scaling xp system.

Yes I know that there are seweral other systems which support this kind of challence rate/exp system. But are there any true reason to rebuild current system ?

2) AT doesn't currently have many insanely difficult monsters... in fact, you can currently finish the game around level 30ish if you so chose. Now, you could either make the monsters you fight grow more powerful the higher level you are (which would require a completely new backend system and I don't recommend it for AT) or you could just start adding more difficult monsters into current locations. These would be monsters that no low level player would be able to kill but that someone like Sarumar with his 200 odd levels would be able to face on a mostly equal footing. This would accomplish 2 things: stop the grindfest and give players a challenge. Instead of swooping through the Iquan caves killing everything in sight by poking them with a pointy stick you can now face off against one opponent for a 3 minute long fight that forces you to work for your rewards and then gives you 100k xp per kill. Do note, however, that no low level player should be able to beat these monsters or you will have just handed them some XP on a silver platter. Make the fight tough. Make it require the 50 skill points a lvl 200 player has.

Yesss, I like the idea of newer ending cave where the monsters grown harder and harder.. Untill the implosible to beat for any build..

This kinda idea has suggested sewerall times before. Maby in someday it will be a part of AT.

Happy hunting my fried

[nyktos]

no way, this is an old-school game...
"growing" enemies & variable XP are just too modern.

the enemies are intended to be as strong as the area you are in,
if they are too strong - go back a bit...
if they are too weak - advance a bit...

this game is only geared towards the first 30 - 40 levels,
the next update might help you see the "big picture" if you are feeling some kinda balance issue.

it feels a lot different this time around, when you start over and play all the new content...
there are places you can wander into & die - no warning signs about strong enemies...
and there are places you can hunt comfortably & with low threat levels.

if you are level 50+... and asking for tweaks to the engine,
either start over & see what's been done
or, be patient and wait for the update!
(much stronger mobs & harder quests)

please dont take the above statement the wrong way,
i am not trying to come across as rude or anything...
just making suggestions to keep minds open.



the main reason i start over so much,
is so that i can have better insight into what the game "feels" like.
if i had to guess... we are only about 25% there (towards a final version)

but dont get discouraged,
the Development team is really picking up momentum!

[Sarumar]

no way, this is an old-school game...
"growing" enemies & variable XP are just too modern.

the enemies are intended to be as strong as the area you are in,
if they are too strong - go back a bit...
if they are too weak - advance a bit...

this game is only geared towards the first 30 - 40 levels,
the next update might help you see the "big picture" if you are feeling some kinda balance issue.

it feels a lot different this time around, when you start over and play all the new content...
there are places you can wander into & die - no warning signs about strong enemies...
and there are places you can hunt comfortably & with low threat levels.

if you are level 50+... and asking for tweaks to the engine,
either start over & see what's been done
or, be patient and wait for the update!
(much stronger mobs & harder quests)

please dont take the above statement the wrong way,
i am not trying to come across as rude or anything...
just making suggestions to keep minds open.



the main reason i start over so much,
is so that i can have better insight into what the game "feels" like.
if i had to guess... we are only about 25% there (towards a final version)

but dont get discouraged,
the Development team is really picking up momentum!

+1 to all, but I like most of the "this game is only 25% ready" part

[nyktos]

well, maybe more like 33%... but still!



thanks for the feedback, i was a little nervous to post that...
didn't wanna ruffle feathers or sound all preachy.

[phydeaux]

I agree with you nyktos, and that formula I put up there is really just for thought our a mental exercise... Unless oskar finally puts in an easy/normal/hard mode selection....

[nyktos]

no, that's what's amazing about this project...
that formula could trigger a totally unexpected response!
who knows where this game is going?



i was only sharing some thoughts,
and in no way did i want to interrupt this discussion...
or stop people from writing up some code!

[sometimes it's difficult for me to make a post]



i can't read the other Dev's minds,
but i think i have a decent idea about where things are going.

so, like i said...
lets keep this going!
anything can happen here.

[Pyrizzle]

Great post Nyktos!

[If you could read my mind you would have already gotten me a taco]

[DarkSavant13]

Something I love about this game is that your ideas, suggestions, and even complaints are listened to. A suggestion today could end up as an implementation tomorrow. (Well,not that quick but you get what I'm saying. You can also submit dialog, quests, etc.

This game is a game for the players, which means that it is constantly changing to meet what the majority of players want.

So, what the players want will come, the quests and monsters will get harder, and all yer dreams will come true.

Patience is the key.

[fiernaq]

no way, this is an old-school game...
"growing" enemies & variable XP are just too modern.

the enemies are intended to be as strong as the area you are in,
if they are too strong - go back a bit...
if they are too weak - advance a bit...

this game is only geared towards the first 30 - 40 levels,
the next update might help you see the "big picture" if you are feeling some kinda balance issue.

Valid point. I was simply addressing the responses to the opening post without stopping to think about the way AT is currently designed and what its intentions are. The comment you made about the game only being finished up to the first 30-40 levels makes a lot of sense and taking that into consideration there appears to be no need for a change in method at all. I would still like to see some of the more difficult monsters get a slight XP boost though.

Monsters in the gargoyle caves for example could really stand to benefit from a +20 xp gained per kill and most of the stuff on the way up to BW mountain should really have another +20 or +30 xp gained per kill as well. I haven't done much in the Iquan caves yet but I imagine that it too could see a small boost to xp.

The only part of AT that seems to go past lvl 30-40 are the skills as even at lvl 200 I don't think you'll have them all.