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Re: Quick Learner
Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 11:23 am
by ncer
I read that somewhere on the forums I think. Decided that I should have a look at the source to see if I can find the code. I found it:
Code: Select all
public void createLoot(Loot container, Player player) {
int exp = this.exp;
exp += exp * player.getSkillLevel(SkillCollection.SKILL_MORE_EXP) * SkillCollection.PER_SKILLPOINT_INCREASE_MORE_EXP_PERCENT / 100;
container.exp += exp;
if (this.dropList == null) return;
this.dropList.createRandomLoot(container, player);
}
It is apparently not exponential
. It's still worthwhile if you want to be on the highscore list though, at for example level 119 somebody without QL will have killed about double the enemies somebody who has maxed QL has and when the QL player has killed as many as the non-QL killed at 119 he will be at 160.
Re: Quick Learner
Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 5:59 pm
by kpetro
So, aside from slightly increasing the rate at which one may level up to climb the high score list, and getting increased HP, AC, AD, or BC that one would get from leveling up anyway, I don't agree with arguments that the QL skill is good for anything else. In terms of killing potential, other skills are better for enhancing the overall abilities of the character. Using a skill point in QL instead of another skill does not lead to reduced kills to get the next skill point as shown in the example below:
Level 20 22000
Level 21 24255
Level 22 26620
Level 23 29095
Total 101970
If the average monster Exp is 100,
Need to kill 1020 monsters to move these 4 levels and get a skill point.
Level 24 31680
Level 25 34375
Level 26 37180
Level 27 40095
Total 143330
If one used Quick learner for the skill point earned at the start of level 24,
and now the average monster Exp is 105
Need to kill 1365 monsters to get to the next skill point, more than was required to get the QL skill point last time.
Better to use the skill point in Increased Fortutude, Regeneration, Corpse Eater, or some other attribute that makes the character stronger. Above a certain point, the characters are all pretty much undefeatable, so then using skill points in Quick Learner helps to advance levels faster, but only to charge up the High Score list and not to make the character more undefeatable.
Re: Quick Learner
Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 5:29 am
by Chest_Rockfield
kpetro wrote:So, aside from slightly increasing the rate at which one may level up to climb the high score list, and getting increased HP, AC, AD, or BC that one would get from leveling up anyway, I don't agree with arguments that the QL skill is good for anything else. In terms of killing potential, other skills are better for enhancing the overall abilities of the character. Using a skill point in QL instead of another skill does not lead to reduced kills to get the next skill point as shown in the example below:
Level 20 22000
Level 21 24255
Level 22 26620
Level 23 29095
Total 101970
If the average monster Exp is 100,
Need to kill 1020 monsters to move these 4 levels and get a skill point.
Level 24 31680
Level 25 34375
Level 26 37180
Level 27 40095
Total 143330
If one used Quick learner for the skill point earned at the start of level 24,
and now the average monster Exp is 105
Need to kill 1365 monsters to get to the next skill point, more than was required to get the QL skill point last time.
Better to use the skill point in Increased Fortutude, Regeneration, Corpse Eater, or some other attribute that makes the character stronger. Above a certain point, the characters are all pretty much undefeatable, so then using skill points in Quick Learner helps to advance levels faster, but only to charge up the High Score list and not to make the character more undefeatable.
That said, how much do you have in QL...
-----------------------------
I just thought of something else. You used an average exp of 100/monster. If you increase that, which I believe most people are already grinding in a place where the average exp is >100, you see smaller gaps. At a 200 exp/monster average, you only have to kill 172 more monsters compared to the 345 in your example, and at 300 exp/monster, the gap shrinks to 115. In the next update, suppose we see an area to grind that has a much higher average monster experience. This may never
lower the amount of monsters you need to kill, but leveling almost as quick as you were before may be all the catalyst one needs to level beyond the point where you'd have quit had you used your SP on "useful" stuff. Furthermore, if you will ultimately become unbeatable either way, the "useful" skills you took previously are no longer all that useful, are they? I guess that is a testament to Nyktos & Pyrizzle's illustration that the game could stand to be a little harder.
Re: Quick Learner
Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 2:45 pm
by kpetro
Chest_Rockfield wrote:I just thought of something else. You used an average exp of 100/monster. If you increase that, which I believe most people are already grinding in a place where the average exp is >100, you see smaller gaps. At a 200 exp/monster average, you only have to kill 172 more monsters compared to the 345 in your example, and at 300 exp/monster, the gap shrinks to 115. In the next update, suppose we see an area to grind that has a much higher average monster experience. This may never lower the amount of monsters you need to kill, but leveling almost as quick as you were before may be all the catalyst one needs to level beyond the point where you'd have quit had you used your SP on "useful" stuff. Furthermore, if you will ultimately become unbeatable either way, the "useful" skills you took previously are no longer all that useful, are they? I guess that is a testament to Nyktos & Pyrizzle's illustration that the game could stand to be a little harder.
It is true that most people are now fighting monsters with >100exp, but my example was for a low level character (grinding for a RoLS for example) and the higher the level, the greater the exp needed to move up to get the next skill point. You could do the same example for a level 100 character (or higher) averaging 300 exp per kill. More kills are needed to get to the next skill point even if QL is chosen for the previous one.
Since my goal previous goals were to get to 50MM exp and 5MM gold, the grinding was long and tedious and I wanted to move up the high score list so I began putting all skill points to QL. Unless grinding for a legendary item, there is really no other reason for getting so much experience and continuing to grind for more, except to go higher on the list. In that case, QL is exactly what is needed.
Re: Quick Learner
Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 5:53 pm
by Mino
kpetro wrote:Chest_Rockfield wrote:I just thought of something else. You used an average exp of 100/monster. If you increase that, which I believe most people are already grinding in a place where the average exp is >100, you see smaller gaps. At a 200 exp/monster average, you only have to kill 172 more monsters compared to the 345 in your example, and at 300 exp/monster, the gap shrinks to 115. In the next update, suppose we see an area to grind that has a much higher average monster experience. This may never lower the amount of monsters you need to kill, but leveling almost as quick as you were before may be all the catalyst one needs to level beyond the point where you'd have quit had you used your SP on "useful" stuff. Furthermore, if you will ultimately become unbeatable either way, the "useful" skills you took previously are no longer all that useful, are they? I guess that is a testament to Nyktos & Pyrizzle's illustration that the game could stand to be a little harder.
It is true that most people are now fighting monsters with >100exp, but my example was for a low level character (grinding for a RoLS for example) and the higher the level, the greater the exp needed to move up to get the next skill point. You could do the same example for a level 100 character (or higher) averaging 300 exp per kill. More kills are needed to get to the next skill point even if QL is chosen for the previous one.
Since my goal previous goals were to get to 50MM exp and 5MM gold, the grinding was long and tedious and I wanted to move up the high score list so I began putting all skill points to QL. Unless grinding for a legendary item, there is really no other reason for getting so much experience and continuing to grind for more, except to go higher on the list. In that case, QL is exactly what is needed.
Even if we didn't have the high score list, I would still spend time grinding to level up, that's just my personality, so having QL to make it happen faster helps. Its to have a stronger character for when the next update comes out. Getting a L or E item out of it doesn't hurt though.
Edit: I've stated in other topics that I don't plan to use skill points for things that you can get through normal level ups (AD, BC, AC) or equipment (corpse eater, bark skin, regeneration - I did make an exception for more criticals though). I consider QL to be a unique skill because you can't get that effect from regular level ups, or equipment. Also, since I have a skill point in Increased Fortitude, the faster I level up, the more I increase my max HP.
Re: Quick Learner
Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:33 pm
by Mino
Thought I'd bring this back up, since I have a question about QL.
Does it also work on XP gained from completing quests? When I went through the new quests with my "main" build it seemed like I was getting a lot of XP on completing them, but I didn't write down the amount and compare with my secondary character that doesn't have any QL.
Re: Quick Learner
Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:16 am
by Pyrizzle
Mino wrote:Thought I'd bring this back up, since I have a question about QL.
Does it also work on XP gained from completing quests? When I went through the new quests with my "main" build it seemed like I was getting a lot of XP on completing them, but I didn't write down the amount and compare with my secondary character that doesn't have any QL.
That is a great question: Give me a few moments to experiment and i will be back with an answer shortly
-----------------------------EDIT------------------------------------------
Deep Wound:
W/O QL:
W/ QL (lvl 16):
Looks like Quick Learner doesn't effect the XP given from finishing quests.
Re: Quick Learner
Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:52 am
by Antison
Pyrizzle wrote:Mino wrote:Thought I'd bring this back up, since I have a question about QL.
Does it also work on XP gained from completing quests? When I went through the new quests with my "main" build it seemed like I was getting a lot of XP on completing them, but I didn't write down the amount and compare with my secondary character that doesn't have any QL.
Looks like Quick Learner doesn't effect the XP given from finishing quests.
Do we think it should 
I am a "riding the fence" on this one as I could be swayed in either direction.
Re: Quick Learner
Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:45 am
by Pyrizzle
tek wrote:
Do we think it should I am a "riding the fence" on this one as I could be swayed in either direction.
You lookin' to cause trouble again Tek? Get down from there before you break your neck. 
That is a good question, IMO i think it shouldn't effect quest XP.
Re: Quick Learner
Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:55 am
by Antison
Pyrizzle wrote:tek wrote:
Do we think it should I am a "riding the fence" on this one as I could be swayed in either direction.
You lookin' to cause trouble again Tek? Get down from there before you break your neck.
.
I don't follow.