Heavy Weapons

[Mad P]

All weapons lose out on the quickstrike dagger (non crit build) and DotSP (crit build) eventually, unless they have something very special (like the RoL).

To make more weapons desirable, I think they should be made more special (rather than nerfing the game system).
And that's exactly what the next version will be doing (i hope), by introducing cool weapon specializations and tuning the existing weapons to fit in.

[Tomcat]

All weapons lose out on the quickstrike dagger (non crit build) and DotSP (crit build) eventually, unless they have something very special (like the RoL).

To make more weapons desirable, I think they should be made more special (rather than nerfing the game system).
And that's exactly what the next version will be doing (i hope), by introducing cool weapon specializations and tuning the existing weapons to fit in.

No one is suggesting nerfing the whole system. Nerfing one thing (AD level ups) is only one way to fix the problem, but there are others. Scaling up damage proportionally instead of linearly is another.

I'll be happy with amy new system if there is a broad range of viable options throughout low to high levels. We don't have that now.

[Antison]

Fire7051, Tomcat, and Mad P,

All three of you make great points and I see the validity in all of them and because of that, I am "on the fence". All I can say is to trust Oskar. He hears your concerns and he and his team will come up with a solution that address this topic the best he can with a minimal impact on current builds (as far as what gets "nerfed") just as he did when he introduced ECC.

[Tomcat]

Fire7051, Tomcat, and Mad P,

All three of you make great points and I see the validity in all of them and because of that, I am "on the fence". All I can say is to trust Oskar. He hears your concerns and he and his team will come up with a solution that address this topic the best he can with a minimal impact on current builds (as far as what gets "nerfed") just as he did when he introduced ECC.

+1 Just wanted to get it in the agenda, so better play testers than me could be thinking about it. I know Oskar stresses balance and depth in play, and repeatability, and addressing this somehow will certainly further his goals.

[der_Hosenwyrm]

In general terms, I agree that the character build should remain important. I don't think that anyone is suggesting that player stats be totally nerfed.

However, making AD level ups give a flat damage bonus regardless of weapon results in the game being so heavily skewed towards fast small weapons that I don't think that you can come up with a build of any sort that isn't more powerful in combat with a dagger than a heavy weapon, or even a BSS. Sure you can have fun and powerful running around with Gutsplitter, but you are doing less damage per turn than you could be.

Only a special feature like life stealing can help, and if you introduced a Dagger of Life Stealing, it would immediately become better than the RoL unless you ruthlessly nerfed it with a huge drawback.

Adding a variety of new weapons won't help, if none of them can be as good as a dagger.

We need a system where dagger is only most powerful if you build for it, while a bigger weapon can be better with a different build.

I'm hoping that the new proficiencies will make this happen. My point is that it needs to be a goal.

+1

[goderick]

your right sir, if your character use heavy weapons, u need to know if her ability can handle a higher weapons. like great swords.

[Thystonius]

I think the current combat system is heavily skewed towards maximizing your number of attacks, regardless of the weapons base damage. This is because your actual damage quickly becomes dominated by AD level ups. If your 3AP dagger stayed at 1-2 AD per attack, then a 6AP hammer with 5-10 AD can compete. But currently, you can rapidly raise the AD equally on both. Pretty soon, 21-22 twice as often as 25-30 is the only viable choice, inked that big clunker comes with some awesome extras. The whole AP/AD situation needs to be rebalanced.

Perhaps if the weapon damage was a multiplier of your base AD + a bonus, then there would be a benefit of using the slower weapons when you have a higher base AD.

E.g. a quickstrike dagger would deal base damage x 0.9, flagstaff's pride base damage x 1.1 + 4 etc (numbers pulled from midair).

I totally love this idea, as well as the suggestion to add DR reducing effects / increase DR in the game. DR would then not be effective against heavy damage weapons.

[markjoseph]

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[Pyrizzle]

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Hello MarkJoseph! Welcome to the forums! =)