AP Rollover

[Xero]

I might agree to this from a player's perspective. However, from a more logical view... That's another story.

Let's say you have ten ap. Then let's say you have a four ap cost weapon. You can get in two swings per turn. The two extra ap points give you half a swing. From what Fire7051says, we should be able to swing thrice next turn. If you look at the numbers it would be so. But if you look at the situation without numbers, you get something else entirely.

U swing twice at the monster. As I swing my third time, almost connecting, the monster retaliates. I sidestep, spoiling the hit, or continue the swing only to get hit before my blow connects. As the monster aims another blow, I struggle to recover into a position more suitable for attacking, dodging, blocking, and weaving through the blows. Eventually, I retaliate, leaping back into an attacking position, and spoiling the monster's hit. The monster is pressed back into a defensive, and the assault goes on.

From the above situation, it is clear why ap from previous rounds should not carry into the next. The ap would be used to block and defend, and moving back into the position of the aggressor. Which is why, from a logical standpoint, Fire's argument does not stand.

I understand what you're saying, but dodging does not consume ap like it would in real life. logically, if two fighters are boxing, 1 boxer is swinging away at the other expending his ap as it were, the second fighter blocks, evades, and takes well placed shots effectively saving his ap. This was the strategy of a well known boxer, muhammad ali. When the first fighter has expended enough energy and has grown tired, muhammad would come back and dominate his unsuspecting opponent often late in the boxing match. This strategy is widely used in many facets of fighting today and probably has been before this. therefor, and logically, players should be allowed to conserve ap. I would also like to suggest a penalty to defense on a player who has expended all their ap in 1 round and follow that with a new skill that counter attacks at the cost of unused ap "riposte".

[Mad P]

When I go to bed two hours earlier than normal, I wake up the usual time...

[Pyrizzle]

I feel as like it shouldn't roll over, if you are concerned about wasting AP than you should probably invest in a more efficient weapon that will use all your AP each turn.

use weapons that have an AP of: (with max Ap 12 in these examples)
2: for 6 swings (0 left over)
3: for 4 swings (0 left over)
4: for 3 swings (o left over)
5: for 2 swings (2 left over)
6: for 2 swings (0 left over)
7: for 1 swing (5 left over, enough for a potion or equip)
8: for 1 swing (4 left over)

[Mad P]

There's one thing I don't get about this discussion: I hear arguments against AP rollover because it would be too overpowered.

But why would it be overpowered? Some AP rolls over, sometimes allowing for that extra swing. Big deal.
Yes you will be able to save all of your AP and use the double amount the next turn. Why would anyone do that? Willingly accept the full monster retaliation first?

So I can't imagine why this would lead to unwanted situations.

I'm just not convinced it would be very logical to carry AP over...

[Fire7051]

I feel as like it shouldn't roll over, if you are concerned about wasting AP than you should probably invest in a more efficient weapon that will use all your AP each turn.

use weapons that have an AP of: (with max Ap 12 in these examples)
2: for 6 swings (0 left over)
3: for 4 swings (0 left over)
4: for 3 swings (o left over)
5: for 2 swings (2 left over)
6: for 2 swings (0 left over)
7: for 1 swing (5 left over, enough for a potion or equip)
8: for 1 swing (4 left over)

This right here is the problem. Basically I can only use weapons that fit into one of a few combinations of AP usage, if not then the weapon is worthless and should not be used. Shouldn't every weapon be useful, not just a handful? At 8AP cost the weapon has to kill any monster in one round maybe two at the most. However, they don't, anything that high still does not have the power, and even with Cleave it is still useless. So if these weapons are underpowered how can it be balanced out?

[Stompp]

I feel as like it shouldn't roll over, if you are concerned about wasting AP than you should probably invest in a more efficient weapon that will use all your AP each turn.

use weapons that have an AP of: (with max Ap 12 in these examples)
2: for 6 swings (0 left over)
3: for 4 swings (0 left over)
4: for 3 swings (o left over)
5: for 2 swings (2 left over)
6: for 2 swings (0 left over)
7: for 1 swing (5 left over, enough for a potion or equip)
8: for 1 swing (4 left over)

This right here is the problem. Basically I can only use weapons that fit into one of a few combinations of AP usage, if not then the weapon is worthless and should not be used. Shouldn't every weapon be useful, not just a handful? At 8AP cost the weapon has to kill any monster in one round maybe two at the most. However, they don't, anything that high still does not have the power, and even with Cleave it is still useless. So if these weapons are underpowered how can it be balanced out?

This falls into the logic for heavy weapons bonuses at this point... in that if it's not efficient, it should HURT when you swing it.

[Mino]

There's one thing I don't get about this discussion: I hear arguments against AP rollover because it would be too overpowered.

But why would it be overpowered? Some AP rolls over, sometimes allowing for that extra swing. Big deal.
Yes you will be able to save all of your AP and use the double amount the next turn. Why would anyone do that? Willingly accept the full monster retaliation first?

So I can't imagine why this would lead to unwanted situations.

I'm just not convinced it would be very logical to carry AP over...

The saving up strategy can be prevented if you make it so using "end turn" resets your AP. As for the situations Pyrizzle listed, if you equip move cost reducing items you can try a hit and run strategy with some of those one-hit per turn heavy weapons.

[Fire7051]

The saving up strategy can be prevented if you make it so using "end turn" resets your AP. As for the situations Pyrizzle listed, if you equip move cost reducing items you can try a hit and run strategy with some of those one-hit per turn heavy weapons.

You are right hit and run is viable but who builds a warrior equips him with a 2 handed giant weapon and then does hit and run attacks? For hit and run I would think that a dagger would be way more efficient and more realistic as well.

[Wyrmspawn]

You can smash someone so hard he backs up, and use that moment to step back as well. So it is a style of combat that is envisionable.

[Xero]

I agree with fire. Why punish someone who chooses to use a weapon that doesn't use all ap? To further balance the weapons I think this would be a good fix.
Otherwise, just delete the other weapons from the game because they are not as efficient and Therefor, useless.