Unarmed Fighting...are you doing it?

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Lich King
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Re: Unarmed Fighting...are you doing it?

Post by Lich King »

There is no specialization skill for Way of the Monk, and there should be. I think adding your suggested stats to a specialization skill would be better.
Way of the Monk is a specialization in itself, once you pick it, you cannot go back. I mean, you can pick up weapons and armor again, but you have trained yourself to be better off without them. And so it makes sense to just have 3 levels unlike the other fighting styles. And also specializations unlock only at lvl 45, very late, and you need something until that too.
How about another skill you can purchase, starting with one or more oegyth crystals (but not necessarily at Charwood!)? "Iron fists". You are trained by punching and kicking hot sand until the skin on your hands and feet thickens and becomes harder. Boosts AD.
Why not both? Skills are very expensive, you have to think twice and then again where to spend each point. Yet another skill is thus not the best way to improve, even if you can get the first level for just money and crystals (wich are also very rare). Also we already have Strong hit, that gives +2 AD. But maybe this "Iron fists" could give +25% Dmg multiplier for each level when fighting unarmed.
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rijackson741
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Re: Unarmed Fighting...are you doing it?

Post by rijackson741 »

Well, the other fighting style specializations only unlock at level 45 too. we have four fighting styles, but only three of them have a specialization.

Could add some crit chance to the fighting style skill though.
Level:71, XP:6493739, PV:608, FQ:84
HP:210, AC:212, AD:58-77, AP:4, ECC:16%, CM:1.5, BC:188, DR:3
Gold: 237559 | RoLS:1, RoL:1, GoW:1, VSH:1, RoFLS:1, WoB:1
HH:1, WA:1, CS:2, Cl:1, IF:4, Ev:3, Re:2, WP:DA:1, WP:1S:1, WP:B:1, AP:L:1, FS:DW:2, S:DW:1
Lich King
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Re: Unarmed Fighting...are you doing it?

Post by Lich King »

rijackson741 wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 10:51 pm Well, the other fighting style specializations only unlock at level 45 too. we have four fighting styles, but only three of them have a specialization.
Could add some crit chance to the fighting style skill though.
My point was that you need crit before lvl 45 too.
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ornsio
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Re: Unarmed Fighting...are you doing it?

Post by ornsio »

Antison wrote: Tue Apr 14, 2020 8:26 pm
rijackson741 wrote: Tue Apr 14, 2020 12:59 pm I believe that far back in the mists of time unarmed did in fact have an attack cost of 3. It was increased to 4 because 3 meant is was overpowered.
Yes, this true. What makes it overpowered is not that it's at 3 AP, it's that there are necklaces that get it to 2 AP.
I would suggest that unarmed should be 3 AP base, but should NOT go down to 2 when using the necklace from fallhaven. This would allow unarmed characters to still take advantage of some other necklaces available to offset the other equipment sacrifices they have to make, while still not letting them get down to the broken 2 AP. Basically, just set a lower limit of 3 on attack AP cost, and have 3 be the unarmed cost as well.
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Re: Unarmed Fighting...are you doing it?

Post by ornsio »

Lich King wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 9:26 am Why not both? Skills are very expensive, you have to think twice and then again where to spend each point. Yet another skill is thus not the best way to improve, even if you can get the first level for just money and crystals (wich are also very rare). Also we already have Strong hit, that gives +2 AD. But maybe this "Iron fists" could give +25% Dmg multiplier for each level when fighting unarmed.
I actually sort of like the idea of having monks require a bit more skill investment, as long as the trade-off is that those skills are appropriately powerful given the level of investment you have to have and the gear sacrifices you have to make. I agree that max 1.75 crit multiplier seems far too low and would love to see that addressed via skills in some way.

I have been studying the skills and reading up in this thread, and I am about to try an unarmed character now. Is there any way around that Clumsiness effect? If not, putting that on the gloves/boots seems like an odd design decision, why not just make them less powerful instead?
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Re: Unarmed Fighting...are you doing it?

Post by Nut »

Is there any way around that Clumsiness effect? If not, putting that on the gloves/boots seems like an odd design decision, why not just make them less powerful instead?
Clumsiness doesn't stack. It makes sense to wear these together as a set, just like the Blackwater items set with its misery.
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Re: Unarmed Fighting...are you doing it?

Post by Lich King »

ornsio wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 2:08 am I would suggest that unarmed should be 3 AP base, but should NOT go down to 2 when using the necklace from fallhaven. This would allow unarmed characters to still take advantage of some other necklaces available to offset the other equipment sacrifices they have to make, while still not letting them get down to the broken 2 AP. Basically, just set a lower limit of 3 on attack AP cost, and have 3 be the unarmed cost as well.
What if the QSD was made to be considered as unarmed? It's already an oddity, and it doesn't have it's own AD so wielding it gives you an AD like when you go with your fists. Might as well make it a little more odd so that a Monk could use it. It's also nerfed significantly with that -20 BC and 0,75 Dmg mod, so I wouldn't worry too much about it making the character OP.
ornsio wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 2:40 am I actually sort of like the idea of having monks require a bit more skill investment, as long as the trade-off is that those skills are appropriately powerful given the level of investment you have to have and the gear sacrifices you have to make. I agree that max 1.75 crit multiplier seems far too low and would love to see that addressed via skills in some way.
Don't forget that you already have an unarmed and an unarmored fighting skill that you can get in Charwood, and wich you really need too as a Monk, becouse those skills are pretty much the only way you can improve yourself. Yet another skill means that you have to forgo the improvement of these two skills in order the get it. And again: you don't get better equipment in the long run, these skills are your only means to improve!
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ornsio
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Re: Unarmed Fighting...are you doing it?

Post by ornsio »

Nut wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 5:35 am
Is there any way around that Clumsiness effect? If not, putting that on the gloves/boots seems like an odd design decision, why not just make them less powerful instead?
Clumsiness doesn't stack. It makes sense to wear these together as a set, just like the Blackwater items set with its misery.
Ahhhh got it :-D
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Re: Unarmed Fighting...are you doing it?

Post by ornsio »

Lich King wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 9:40 am
ornsio wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 2:40 am I actually sort of like the idea of having monks require a bit more skill investment, as long as the trade-off is that those skills are appropriately powerful given the level of investment you have to have and the gear sacrifices you have to make. I agree that max 1.75 crit multiplier seems far too low and would love to see that addressed via skills in some way.
Don't forget that you already have an unarmed and an unarmored fighting skill that you can get in Charwood, and wich you really need too as a Monk, becouse those skills are pretty much the only way you can improve yourself. Yet another skill means that you have to forgo the improvement of these two skills in order the get it. And again: you don't get better equipment in the long run, these skills are your only means to improve!
I get that, I just think it could still work as long as the skills are balanced to be sufficiently powerful taking into account how much you have to rely on them and what you have to give up to use them. Not to mention balanced to be as obtainable as they should be as you progress through the game (considering such things as what the max number of points you can put into them is, and what the prereqs are). It sounds to me like the two unlockable unarmed/unarmored skills could use some additional balancing perhaps rather than adding a fourth skill, but either way I just think it's all in how they're balanced.

Something that improves base dmg % by just a little would be nice
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Re: Unarmed Fighting...are you doing it?

Post by rijackson741 »

The way of the monk was added as something that is supposed to be difficult. If you want to fight with no armor and no weapon, you cannot expect it to be easy. I do think we should add a specialization skill though. Sure, you can't get it early, but it should be available at some point.
Level:71, XP:6493739, PV:608, FQ:84
HP:210, AC:212, AD:58-77, AP:4, ECC:16%, CM:1.5, BC:188, DR:3
Gold: 237559 | RoLS:1, RoL:1, GoW:1, VSH:1, RoFLS:1, WoB:1
HH:1, WA:1, CS:2, Cl:1, IF:4, Ev:3, Re:2, WP:DA:1, WP:1S:1, WP:B:1, AP:L:1, FS:DW:2, S:DW:1
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