Changes to AC, BC or DR when leveling ul

Unstructured ideas, requests and suggestions for the development of the game.
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rijackson741
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Re: Changes to AC, BC or DR when leveling ul

Post by rijackson741 »

We are discussing this internally. We are agreed that we need to do something to make defensive builds easier. The question is what we need to do. We are very careful about making changes that affect game balance. If we do it because something is out of balance then we need to make the necessary changes once, and get it right. We do not want to make changes that fix one thing, only to unbalance the game in some other way.
Level:71, XP:6493739, PV:608, FQ:84
HP:210, AC:212, AD:58-77, AP:4, ECC:16%, CM:1.5, BC:188, DR:3
Gold: 237559 | RoLS:1, RoL:1, GoW:1, VSH:1, RoFLS:1, WoB:1
HH:1, WA:1, CS:2, Cl:1, IF:4, Ev:3, Re:2, WP:DA:1, WP:1S:1, WP:B:1, AP:L:1, FS:DW:2, S:DW:1
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Re: Changes to AC, BC or DR when leveling ul

Post by rijackson741 »

greyged wrote: Tue Dec 21, 2021 3:02 am
rijackson741 wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 1:38 pm Hard to explain in a skill description though.
seems this would be the easiest part... :?
So what is the description? There is limited space for this.

I'm not against this. Actually, I'm always on the lookout for new skill ideas. The more options the players have, the better.
Level:71, XP:6493739, PV:608, FQ:84
HP:210, AC:212, AD:58-77, AP:4, ECC:16%, CM:1.5, BC:188, DR:3
Gold: 237559 | RoLS:1, RoL:1, GoW:1, VSH:1, RoFLS:1, WoB:1
HH:1, WA:1, CS:2, Cl:1, IF:4, Ev:3, Re:2, WP:DA:1, WP:1S:1, WP:B:1, AP:L:1, FS:DW:2, S:DW:1
Soullessktty
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Re: Changes to AC, BC or DR when leveling ul

Post by Soullessktty »

A defensive build probably means wearing heavy armor eqs and a shield. This means 2 extra skills compare to other builds. My suggestion is work from that skills, either heavy armor or shield gives better stats to player. At the moment, I don't think the shield skill worth taking at all.
greyged
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Re: Changes to AC, BC or DR when leveling ul

Post by greyged »

rijackson741 wrote: Tue Dec 21, 2021 1:21 pm
greyged wrote: Tue Dec 21, 2021 3:02 am
rijackson741 wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 1:38 pm Hard to explain in a skill description though.
seems this would be the easiest part... :?
So what is the description? There is limited space for this.
Didnt really think about it so far because as far as I understood what you said programming it would be veeeerrryyyyyy complex. but if you want I can try to make a "short" description. how many characters max?
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Re: Changes to AC, BC or DR when leveling ul

Post by greyged »

greyged wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 10:19 am Skillevel 1 gain ac+3/bc+3/critchance+5% each round
Round 1 +0/+0+0%
Round 2 +3/+3/+5%
Round 3 +6/+6/+10%
Round 4 +9/+9/+15%
Round 5 +12/+12/+20%
Round 6 until battle ends +15/+15/+25%
Desription:
You learn enemies movement in battle. Each round you gain +3ac/+3bc/+5%critchance per round. Starting with no bonus in the first round you can have up to +15ac/+15bc/+25%critchance in the 6th round until the end.

+required skills and level
greyged wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 10:19 am Skilllevel 2 gain ac+5/bc+5/critchance+10% each round
Round 1 +0/+0+0%
Round 2 +5/+5/+10%
Round 3 +10/+10/+20%
Round 4 +15/+15/+30%
Round 5 +20/+20/+40%
Round 6 until battle ends +25/+25/+50%
You learn enemies movement in battle. Each round you gain +5ac/+5bc/+10%critchance per round. Starting with no bonus in the first round you can have up to +30ac/+30bc/+50%critchance in the 6th round until the end.

+ required skills and level
greyged wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 10:19 am At skilllevel 1 (attackchance only) gain ac+5 each round (with preskill weaponaccuracy 1 and charlevel 10) (
At skilllevel 2 (attackchance and blockchance) gain ac+5/bc+5 each round (with preskill dodge 1 and charlevel 20)
At skilllevel 3 (attackchance, blockchance and critchance) gain ac+5/bc+5/critchance+10% each round (with preskill more crits and charlevel 30)

All up to a maximum Bonus of
Skilllevel 1 ac+25
Skilllevel 2 ac+25/bc+25
Skilllevel 3 ac+25/bc+25/critchance+50%
You learn enemies movement in battle. Each round you gain +5ac per round at Skilllevel 1, +5ac/+5bc per round at Skilllevel 2 and +5ac/+5bc/+10%critchance per round at skilllevel 3 up to a maximum of +25ac/+25bc/+50%critchance (in the 6th round) until the fight ends.

+required skills and charlevel
Last edited by greyged on Tue Dec 21, 2021 8:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Changes to AC, BC or DR when leveling ul

Post by greyged »

greyged wrote: Tue Dec 21, 2021 3:02 am riposte/counterattack (lvl 1 and 2, needs fighting style: weapon and shield and character lvl 20/ lvl 30)

blocking while carrying a shield gives you a 25%/50% to do a counter attack (full damage and critical chance). the block makes the enemy stumble and lowers his attack and block chance by 15/30 for 1 round/2 rounds.
and this could possibly stay as it is (?)
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Re: Changes to AC, BC or DR when leveling ul

Post by rijackson741 »

Hmm. Guess I was overanalyzing the difficulty of the description.

You misunderstood what I said about hard coding skills. We can create new conditions without any coding. We just give them a name, define what they do, and give them an icon. They can be stacking or non-stacking. However, that is limiting in terms of what is possible. Many conditions do the same thing as another condition, just with a different name and icon to better suit their purpose (e.g. bleeding wounds and weak poison).

Skills are different. They are hard coded internally in Java. That means that, in principle, we can do almost anything. That's why the benefits of skills are very varied. Of course, some are easier to code than others. For your suggestion, there are some complexities. If you are up against one monster it's easy. It's just a round counter that resets when combat ends. Although, what happens if you flee? Does that reset the counter? When you are battling a mob it is more tricky. Take the next most simple case, a mob of two. If it were guaranteed you would kill one then the other it's no more difficult than the single monster case. But you can switch opponent. So what happens if in round one you attack one monster, but in round two you switch to the other monster (and bear in mind that they may not be the same type of monster)? This would require two counters, and we would have to keep track of which counter applied to each monster. At the upper limit you could be surrounded by eight monsters, although that is not likely. But if the counter stays active after you flee there is almost no upper limit to the number of counters needed. As many as there are living monsters on the map. So it could be done, but there would be some complexity in the code.
Level:71, XP:6493739, PV:608, FQ:84
HP:210, AC:212, AD:58-77, AP:4, ECC:16%, CM:1.5, BC:188, DR:3
Gold: 237559 | RoLS:1, RoL:1, GoW:1, VSH:1, RoFLS:1, WoB:1
HH:1, WA:1, CS:2, Cl:1, IF:4, Ev:3, Re:2, WP:DA:1, WP:1S:1, WP:B:1, AP:L:1, FS:DW:2, S:DW:1
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rijackson741
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Re: Changes to AC, BC or DR when leveling ul

Post by rijackson741 »

Soullessktty wrote: Tue Dec 21, 2021 3:18 pm A defensive build probably means wearing heavy armor eqs and a shield. This means 2 extra skills compare to other builds. My suggestion is work from that skills, either heavy armor or shield gives better stats to player. At the moment, I don't think the shield skill worth taking at all.
Why two extra skills? You can a skill for heavy armor or light armor. Similarly for, say, dual wield vs weapon and shield.

Maybe we could add some BC to the shield proficiency. I do think the benefits of shields needs to be improved quite a lot. The specialization skill too. It increases AC and AD, but not BC or DR. That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me for that skill.
Level:71, XP:6493739, PV:608, FQ:84
HP:210, AC:212, AD:58-77, AP:4, ECC:16%, CM:1.5, BC:188, DR:3
Gold: 237559 | RoLS:1, RoL:1, GoW:1, VSH:1, RoFLS:1, WoB:1
HH:1, WA:1, CS:2, Cl:1, IF:4, Ev:3, Re:2, WP:DA:1, WP:1S:1, WP:B:1, AP:L:1, FS:DW:2, S:DW:1
greyged
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Re: Changes to AC, BC or DR when leveling ul

Post by greyged »

thats what takes more thinking...
if you fight against multiple enemies at the same time, its easy, you learn from both... but when fleeing this would be something else, you are right.

the enemy would need to have some kind of counter, how long he was/is in battle and depending on that the char would gain the bonus. this counter should not be resetted so fleeing would not reset the bonus.
if you fight an enemy and have already 4 rounds and another enemy joins it would be
enemy Nr 1 round 5, +12ac/bc...
enemy Nr 2 joins round 1 +0ac...


enemy Nr 1 round 6 +15ac.... (if dead, doesnt matter for other enemies)
enemy Nr 2 round 2 +3ac....
enemy Nr 3 joins round 1+0ac...
enemy Nr 4 joins round 1+0ac... and so on

basically some kind of infinite debuff/counter for the enemy that gives the char his bonus. and because you fight them continually you keep learning.

i don't know about the complexity of coding... I only know that things sound way easier than being coded... riposte sounds way easier :roll:
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Re: Changes to AC, BC or DR when leveling ul

Post by greyged »

rijackson741 wrote: Tue Dec 21, 2021 10:55 pm Maybe we could add some BC to the shield proficiency. I do think the benefits of shields needs to be improved quite a lot. The specialization skill too. It increases AC and AD, but not BC or DR. That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me for that skill.
or some crit resistance?
lower crit damage by 25%/50%
lower enemy critchance by x/y
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