Preparing to attempt Blackwater

[Rory Mac]

The issue isn't that you *can't* do the mountain at mid 20's, the key word here is safely. You could spend dozens of meat trying to take down a single wyvrn, or multiple bonemeal potions. Even then the possibility is that you could still die (It happened to me at 32 so. . .) You need both HP to survive and AC to hit and Damage to actually do enough per hit to really matter. currently I have 9 levels devoted to HP and the rest to either damage or AC and I still felt the need to retreat and get a bit more AC.

~D

Well I'm glad I went ahead a tried it. Not really having any significant problems. I leveled up in Flagstone to 25, and headed in with 700 bonemeal, 150 regular potions and 90 meat. I've been all around the areas near Prim, up and back down the mountain, back up again and I'm about half way down the second time. I sided with BW. I currently still have 666 bonemeal, 144 regular potions, and 69 meat. So I think I was plenty tough enough to take on BWM at level 25. Personally, from looking at your stats I think you put too much into HP and not enough into AC. That may have been your issue when you were in the mid 20's. Other than that extra HP, My character stats at 26 are just about equal to yours at 33.

Given that a gargoyle could hit you for up to 60 damage in a single round (improbably but possible) I didn't think that having 65 HP was too low. Considering that I have been hit for 57 damage once and survived... For the mountain it may be a little bit high but for the gargoyles and trainers it wasn't.

~D

Survive... Die... Who cares? I save every 2-3 kills. When I die, I just reload. I'd much rather use my level bonuses on something that matters EVERY time I attack (or am attacked by) a monster - AC. Will I ever bump my HP up to 65? Sure, eventually. But I'd be surprised if I take it that high prior to reaching level 40.

The way I look at it, more HP is a convenience while more AC is a necessity.

[Dreia]

I care, not everyone is so anal that they save every 2-3 kills tyvm.

~D

[Mino]

I'm even worse, I save after every kill

[slayer]

I don't like to die at all. And the higher your level the more it hurts to lose any xp. At level 50 you need 137500 xp to level, every little bit helps.

[tuner240]

When exploring new territory, I always save after every 2-3 kills. When grinding, not so much, usually after every run. Loosing exp at the higher levels does hurt more.

[Rory Mac]

I care, not everyone is so anal that they save every 2-3 kills tyvm.

~D

That's fine, as long as you understand that is your choice. Some will choose higher HP as you have. Some will choose to pad their BC. But many will choose to focus on AC as I have. It's a trade off that every player needs to make. My only point is that you chose to build your HP instead of your AC and had difficulty with BWM in your mid twenties, and my contention is that your difficulty was a direct result of your decision on where to place your leveling bonus. Then you come in here and tell others not to try BWM in their mid 20s. I'm just calling you out to say that others won't necessarily have the same experience you did unless they built their character in the same manner as you did. In MY OPINION others would be better off to focus more of their early bonuses on AC, rather than HP. It gives the character a better chance to compete with stronger monsters at the lowest possible level. You can compensate for lower HP by saving a lot and using lots of potions/meat/bonemeals. But there is no way to compensate for a low AC. You just aren't going to connect as often. That's why I stated that IMHO high AC is necessary while high HP is just a convenience. YMMV.

[Dreia]

I do wish to point out that I was level 32 when I started on the mountain. . .not mid 20's. . . and I have serious issues. My AC isn't horribly low, 143 isn't bad. It's just that the mobs jump from 90 BC for the gargoyle trainers to 130+ for the Wyrms. The change is ridiculously large. The other problem is that I accidentally sold my viperblade some time ago so I have been making up for that loss by doing 5 hits per round. with minor fatigue my hits drop down to 2, which is yet another HUGE hit to my viability. Both of those combined have rendered even my level 33 into a whimpering child.

~D

[Cervando]

I care, not everyone is so anal that they save every 2-3 kills tyvm.

~D

That's fine, as long as you understand that is your choice. Some will choose higher HP as you have. Some will choose to pad their BC. But many will choose to focus on AC as I have. It's a trade off that every player needs to make. My only point is that you chose to build your HP instead of your AC and had difficulty with BWM in your mid twenties, and my contention is that your difficulty was a direct result of your decision on where to place your leveling bonus. Then you come in here and tell others not to try BWM in their mid 20s. I'm just calling you out to say that others won't necessarily have the same experience you did unless they built their character in the same manner as you did. In MY OPINION others would be better off to focus more of their early bonuses on AC, rather than HP. It gives the character a better chance to compete with stronger monsters at the lowest possible level. You can compensate for lower HP by saving a lot and using lots of potions/meat/bonemeals. But there is no way to compensate for a low AC. You just aren't going to connect as often. That's why I stated that IMHO high AC is necessary while high HP is just a convenience. YMMV.

I agree 100% with this. My health is only 45 unequipped, enough to survive most one shots, just in case I miss a lot. I MUCH prefer to kill the mobs fast, rather than letting them hit me. My viewpoint is if I can kill them quickly enough, then I don't need to worry about health so much.

This why Dreia struggled in his 30's, whilst others don't in thier 20's. However, I use a lot of potions farming the Wyrm Trainers, as I can only kill them with crits in one round and the fatigue they inflict makes it even harder. But, the Gargoyle trainers are a breeze for me.

I do wish to point out that I was level 32 when I started on the mountain. . .not mid 20's. . . and I have serious issues. My AC isn't horribly low, 143 isn't bad. It's just that the mobs jump from 90 BC for the gargoyle trainers to 130+ for the Wyrms. The change is ridiculously large. The other problem is that I accidentally sold my viperblade some time ago so I have been making up for that loss by doing 5 hits per round. with minor fatigue my hits drop down to 2, which is yet another HUGE hit to my viability. Both of those combined have rendered even my level 33 into a whimpering child.

~D

I must disagree, as I feel 143 AC is insufficient to attempt the mountain and frankly barely enough to fight even the Gargoyle trainers, as you would miss more often than not. If your AD was high, this wouldn't be too much of an issue, but it is insufficient to make a one round kill probable. I would also suggest changing your weapon, as the quickstrike dagger lowers your BC by 20% and even when fatigued I can do 2 attacks a round with the Flagstone sword, which will do more damage, crit and not lower your BC.IF, you are fighting bare-fisted, then I would definitely recommend using any weapon, as the increase in AC would make the game far easier than it is now. I would strongly recommend equipping for AC and using foreseeable levels for AC and nothing else, until it reaches at least 190.

These comments are my opinion, but I hope you at least try them out.

[qasur]

I only have like 138% AC, 50% BC, and around 20-24 damage, and I only carry around 300 Bonemeals. I've scaled BWM many times on just around 100 bonemeals, and two levels worth (only level 27 now). Been there since I was level 24). My HP went up three times each new level to 60, as I feel that is adequate. Lets me get hit down to 20 (with a comforting cushion to the occasional critical attak).

[Cervando]

I only have like 138% AC, 50% BC, and around 20-24 damage, and I only carry around 300 Bonemeals. I've scaled BWM many times on just around 100 bonemeals, and two levels worth (only level 27 now). Been there since I was level 24). My HP went up three times each new level to 60, as I feel that is adequate. Lets me get hit down to 20 (with a comforting cushion to the occasional critical attak).

Like I said it is possible to do in the mid 20s, but with a low AC it requires a lot of potions. You probably use a bonemeal potion for every fight nearly. Certainly fighting the wyrms and trainers, as they are tough and the fatigue they inflict a nuisance. However, my earlier point that Dreia's comment that the OP shouldn't try BW mountain until he was in his 30s are clearly untrue for many players.