Andordroid: An automated grinding tool for Andor's Trail

[Pistos]

So I've created a tool that, so far, does the following automatically (no screen taps needed on the part of the player):

• repeatedly attack during combat
• pick up items and collect gold after combat
• continue combat whenever attacked, wait in the same spot otherwise

So far, I've used it to grind 90k+ XP to do the entire level 40 to level 41 without needing manual intervention. I'll maybe post timings (XP per minute) later after I try the tool out in various grinding locations.

What I'll work on next (again, this would be done automatically):

• walk along a patrol pattern/path (like a monster)
• attack adjacent monsters
• flee combat if health falls below a threshold
• walk to a safe zone (off of all monster patrol paths) to heal
• exit to the menu screen in a dire situation, so that the player can take manual control to try to save the character's life

I've done a brief search in the forums, and I see that Andor's Trail fans are divided about whether a given activity is cheating or not. The debated actions include:

• Saving just before a difficult fight, reloading if you die
• When trying to get a rare drop: bringing the monster to very low health, fleeing battle, saving the game, the repeatedly reloading and killing the monster until the drop is had
• Editing save files

I have my opinions about whether certain things are cheating, which I will share shortly, but first I'm interested to know: What does the AT community think about "scripting" or "bots" like I am talking about in this post?

(By the way, I will likely share this tool some time later, I just want to polish it up first, improve it, make it more presentable for general consumption.)

[Pistos]

@ctnbeh13

I don't think your assessment of what I'm doing is accurate. Editing save files is something that goes beyond the rules, restrictions and defined data (item attributes, etc.) built into the game. In contrast, scripting in-game actions stays entirely within the confines of the built-in system. My weapon does not do any more damage than if I were pressing the screen with my finger, nor does my armour protect more, nor does my HP get inflated, or my AP, and so on.

If scripting is wrong, then what if one were to set up a mechanical device to act like a finger pressing the screen, and have the device tap the screen instead of the finger? Is that wrong? Or what if instead of me tapping the screen 1000 times, I hire someone to tap the screen 1000 times? Is that wrong?

[rijackson741]

"Cheating" requires three elements: Use of a feature not built into the game by design, competition, a level of deception.

If you use only features that were built into the game by design, even if you use them in novel or unconventional ways, you are not cheating. There is no rule book for AT, so the only set of rules are the ones dictated by the structure and features of the game. So using save games to deal with difficult monsters or rare drops is not cheating, even if some might consider it rather unethical. If you use only features that were built in to the game by design you are under no obligation to list all the features you used to get a particular score. If you exploit a bug, or use a feature that was not designed into the game (for example, editing your save game) you are still not necessarily cheating. It depends on whether or not you meet the other two requirements.

If you are playing the game entirely for yourself you can do whatever you want. After all, nobody else is being hurt by your actions, and you are not fooling anybody because of course you know what you have done. However, if you want to compare what you have done (e.g. your score, how many legendary items you have, etc) to what someone else has done then you are no longer acting in isolation. You are acting in competition, and competition is meaningless unless everyone plays by the same rules. Even if you used a feature that is not built into the game by design you are still not necessarily cheating though. As long as you openly declare what you did, anyone can take the comparison for what it's worth (depending on what you did, it could be worth nothing).

And that is where the last element comes in: deception. If you use features that were not built in to the game by design, and you compare what you have done in the game to what one or more others have done, and you don't declare that you used those features, you are cheating.

So you can use your bot to achieve whatever level you wish, but please do not post your characters stats in your signature, because other players will look at them under the assumption that you played by the same rules as everyone else, and if you used a bot to gain levels then that is not the case.

Like ctnbeh13, I don't see the point, and don't see any real distinction between using a bot in the way you describe and just editing the same game. The difference between you hitting the screen 1000 times and the bot doing it (or the mechanical finger, or someone else) is precisely that it's not you doing it. If I want to automate the grinding I could also download the source code and create a new version of the game, that only I have, that has a button called "advance one level". When I tap the button the computer just randomly kills things until I am one level higher. The fact that you have added such code outside of the game rather than in it makes no difference. As for paying someone, if you do that then it's no longer your character. It is, at least in part, that other persons character. If you then compare "your" character to someone else's without declaring that you paid someone to help you, then you are competing against them in a deceptive way, and that is cheating.

If in doubt, ask yourself "would this be fair, or allowed, in an exam"? Secretly using a computer to answer the exam questions for you is cheating. Secretly paying someone else to answer the exam questions for you is cheating. It would be an attempt to diminish the achievements of others by using deception to artificially improve your results relative to theirs. Of course, you could declare what you had done, but then your exam results would (rightly) be thrown out.

Edit: this is of course a personal opinion. What constitutes cheating is subjective, and I'm sure others will disagree with my analysis (or diatribe?). I tried to give the most objective opinion I could though

[Pistos]

@rijackson741

Well said! I largely agree with your positions and rationale. I don't have qualms with what I am doing. I am doing as you mentioned, which is not trying to pretend that I achieved certain character stats purely by finger taps alone. I didn't think about this concern, but now that you point it out, I'm happy to respect that at least some segment of this community cares about this, and so if I were to ever post my stats in pride, to offer for comparison with others, I shall certainly provide the parenthetical note that I used scripting to gain a portion of my experience points, items and gold. I have to admit, this is not something I considered, because I have been playing this purely for my own personal enjoyment, and not to compete with others. However, I can fully acknowledge and respect that other people play AT to compete.

Ignoring the case of paying someone to tap the screen for me, I think that in the other cases I offered, it is still fully "my" game and stats. Whether I cut down a tree with an axe or a chainsaw, I have still cut down the tree, and the tree felling is truly my achievement in either case.

[Zukero]

Well, in my opinion as a coder, I would tend to consider the time spent writing/refining the tool worth bragging about the results achieved with it.
However, using someone else's tool (pre-built auto clicker or whatnot) makes you a lame script-kiddie
In the end, I see nothing wrong with someone building tools to play differently, but I'm not a huge fan of others using these tools.
I'd say, publish the source code, but not the binary, so that it will take at least some effort to use your tool.

Oh, and don't add your stats to your signature. You can show them off in a post about your tool, like this one.

[Pistos]

I think I disagree: if it is morally acceptable to use a tool you built, I think it's morally acceptable for someone else to use that tool, too (assuming the creator freely shares the tool, and gives full consent for it to be copied/taken and used).

[DanielS]

I don't need this tool because :
1) I play AT for myself, not for scoreboard
2) Playing AT is my hobby, not my work
3) I play because I like to play and I grinding because I like grinding.
That's all I think.

[Pistos]

I grinding because I like grinding

This says it all, really. This is a tool to automate some actions, but if you actually enjoy engaging in those actions, and paying the associated time cost, then it makes no sense for you to automate them.

Me personally, I can stand only so much manual grinding. I'm much more interested in proceeding with quests.

[Nut]

I really like playing AT and am seeking some special ring for my secound character.
This I do the normal way, because if I yield to temptation once, I would do it more and more often and in the end I would loose the fun of playing.
Indeed I found a way to gain thousands of Rols. I tried it, enjoyed some minutes of fun being successful - Wow! and then deleted the savegame. It would have been boring afterwards...
Same thing with levelling up that way, thats my opinion.