Should the Balanced Steel Sword be two-handed?

[Antison]

From the "Going for the RoL" thread...

That is great news, but what about the ELyR

ElyR is going to be two handed, as far as i know...

Should the Balanced Steel Sword be two-handed?

Now this may be me “jumping the gun”, but if the ELyR is to be made two-handed, I think the BSS should as well.
I think that the Balanced Steel Sword (BSS) should be included in the list of two-handed weapons coming in 0.6.12 (0.7.0?). The reason I say this is because when comparing the ELyR to it, the ELyR is not that “legendary”. Now some of you will reference back to my comment/argument that the GoLF was not “extraordinary” enough when compared to the Troublemaker’s gloves and Oskar’s comments that they don’t have to be and that the GoLF’s stats will not change. However, if Oskar and his team have plans to change the ELyR to require 2 hands, I will not stand by and watch them do it without making my argument/plea. Also, I believe that a “legendary” item should be more valuable (I.e. the player would choose to wear it over 100% of the items he can currently buy in the map regions around where he got it from). The hero leaves BWM and then heads to the crossroads guard house and finds and even better weapon in the shop. How does that make any sense? I am not saying that the “legendary” item should be the ‘end all, be all”, but it should be the most “valuable” available for a while.

BSS’s stats & those of the ELyR are very close in comparison. Take a look:

ELyR: AP: 5, AC: 25% + 5% (Bless) = 30%, AD: 3-8, BC: 5%, raises max AP +2
BSS: AP: 4, AC: 32%, AD: 3-7

The BSS attacks more and requires less AP, but the ELyR has the 5% BC (minimal impact on hero) and 1 point more of damage. The +2 AP provided by the ELyR is a nonfactor unless the player buys lots of costly “minor potion of speed”. With the JoF and max AP of 12, the BSS will get 4 attacks, yet the ELyR will get 3 (4 if minor potion of speed is used). Now some might argue that the +2 AP will foster the “hit-and-run” tactic as you would be able to attack 3 times and have 2 AP leftover and if equipping the “coward’s boots”, the VOH, and the “Villain’s armor” will allow you to flee from the fight. Big deal, the same can be accomplished with the BSS. You attack 3 times (leaving 3 AP) and if 2 of the 3 aforementioned items are equipped, you can flee.
So it is my conclusion that:
1) the ELyR is already weaker than the BSS
2) if the ELyR is to be made two-handed, so should the BSS
3) In fact, because the ELyR is already weaker it should either be given more BC or be kept one-handed and the BSS be made two-handed.

[LordLancelot]

Should the Balanced Steel Sword be two-handed?

no.

All weapon with more than 3 ap cost should do more damage than now, the balanced sword is one of the few not too bad weapon.

Look at my 2h sword damage proposal
here

http://andorstrail.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1897

all weapon should do Xtime AD when having more than 3 AP cost to compensate to loss of attacks and damage (from AD).

[nyktos]

Should the Balanced Steel Sword be two-handed?

(...)

Now this may be me “jumping the gun”

this isn't jumping the gun at all,
this is an amazing post...

what is proposed in the testing stages (pre-alpha)

Code: Select all

dual wielding - equal damage & AC boost
weapon & sheild - major AC boost & decent damage boost
two handed - major damage & decent AC boost

then we need to fill shops with weapons
and put the existing weapons into categories

the more people we have thinking about the balance of the game
and how things should work = the better!!!



great thread tek

[Mino]

I agree that the balanced steel sword is overall more powerful than the ElyR. If you also factor in cleave, the BSS gets another attack with each kill making it even more useful.

One thing to remember is that the ElyR was created before the skill points were in the picture. So without Combat Speed, the + 2 AP would boost you to 12 max allowing 3 attacks per turn instead of 2, if using JoF. In the old system, the BSS would also only allow 3 attacks unless you use speed potions.

One idea would be to adjust the ElyR stats into the current skills system by making it +4 max AP, to allow 4 attacks per turn instead of 3, if you have level 2 combat speed. Or jst lower the AP cost to 4 to match the BSS. I will also again suggest making Bless = +5% of existing AC (example, if existing AC is 200, bless would give you +10% AC or if it's 300, bless would give +15% AC).

[Piggy the Slayer]

BSS should remain one handed. Surely balanced suggests this. Its in the top five weapons currently in the game and vital to non critical builds. IMO it should be kept as it is.

[Sarumar]

+1 to Tek, BSS is good and ElyR is too weak ! There are too little useful weapons at all.....

[Wyrmspawn]

ElyR should do more damage if it's two handed... Maybe make it the best two handed sword in the game with attack ap cost of 5 only. That would make it legendary.

[Antison]

FYI, I am not looking to equip the ELyR and another weapon here. I am just looking to keep equipping my Remgard shield as I don't want to lose my +9% BC. It just so happens that I also believe that the ELyR has been too weak sense the skills were introduced (great point by Mino) and when compared to the BSS, its even weaker. Now if it is made two-handed and the BSS is kept one-handed, then we have some great unbalance which is ironic as this unbalance is with the balanced steel sword.

There are 2 arguments here:

• 1. The party that says that the BSS should be one-handed and don't care about the ELyR
  2. Then there is the party that says that the ELyR is currently under powered and if made two-handed it will be even more nerfed (hate those made up words) and they are using the BSS as exhibit A in their argument.

[/b]

I am not on a crusade to get Oskar to bump up the ELyR's stats (don't get me wrong, it would be nice) or to get him to make the BSS two-handed (as long as the ELyR gets an improvement). I am on a crusade to convince him to keep it as a one-handed weapon and make the BSS two-handed for the sake of balance if the stats on both are kept unchanged and the ELyR is indeed changed to require 2 hands.

[Mad P]

Maybe create the bastard sword category: swords that can be wielded single or two handed - each having its own benefit.

[Wyrmspawn]

That would be hard to categorize. The two-handed swords will deal more damage in the future, while the one-handed swords will remain the same. I don't see what the bastard sword category would do. IMO, the ElyR should deal +1 minimum damage or Bless should give you more damage against undead creatures.