How should evasion be affected in V0.7.0?

[Tulkas]

My thoughts are that evasion should still allow you to have (5/10/15/20%) better chance to attack first, even though there's active monster movement/aggression.

I also think that it should also provide a chance where monsters "lose sight" of your character, like the character slips into the shadows, and the monsters move back into random movement because they don't see him. This could be established on a round by round basis, and while in this cloaked mode your evasion chance could increase by, say, 50%.

How do you guys think Evasion should be implemented in V0.7.0?

How do you think it will be implemented in V0.7.0?

[only1doug]

Evasion should still (partially?) negate the creatures efforts to initiate combat while adjacent, so a wary player with evasion should be able to initiate combat when the creature moves adjacent to him/her. With combat initiated the player can then use the flee option to limit the number of enemies able to face him at once / escape from combat before re-initiating in better position. This could make evasion a much more useful skill in version 0.7.0.

Note: when fleeing combat move on a diagonal to escape or ensure that you keep moving away.

Higher levels of evasion will counteract the monsters aggression so that all you have to do is time your movement correctly with monster movement.

I'd like to see aggression implemented for the player, so that if my character is standing next to a monster I have a chance of initiating the combat (without having to move into the monster). (probably with an option in the menu to turn aggression on and off)

[Tomcat]

I see how the fleeing part could be very important, as doug describes.

What I don't know is how the first strike part works currently when you move adjacent to multiple mobs simultaneously. Does your chance of avoiding a mob first strike unchanged by the number of opponents?

Either way, whoever goes first, all the mobs wind up sharing their ”inning”, alternating with your turn's worth of swings. I assume that monsters moving into range simply join the mob team's turn. Would Evasion give you a chance that the newly joining monster has to wait a turn before getting a swing? That would be a very big deal. Otherwise, I don't see how first strike affects this side of the equation at all.

Incidentally, why don't monsters move diagonally?

[only1doug]

What I don't know is how the first strike part works currently when you move adjacent to multiple mobs simultaneously. Does your chance of avoiding a mob first strike unchanged by the number of opponents?

Currently yes with evasion 3 I could leave my character standing next to two static monsters all day with 0 chance of them starting a combat (I didn't have evasion 3 when I fought the only set of 3 static enemies that I know of).

Either way, whoever goes first, all the mobs wind up sharing their ”inning”, alternating with your turn's worth of swings. I assume that monsters moving into range simply join the mob team's turn. Would Evasion give you a chance that the newly joining monster has to wait a turn before getting a swing? That would be a very big deal. Otherwise, I don't see how first strike affects this side of the equation at all.

I assume that the out of combat monsters will only be moving during the mobs turn, meaning that they can only join during that turn. Hopefully the mobs that join an existing combat will have expended some of their AP on movement and so will not get an entire turn's worth of attacks.

Incidentally, why don't monsters move diagonally?

simplicity of programming for pathing reasons perhaps? (no guarantee that it will continue in 0.7.0

[Tomcat]

What I don't know is how the first strike part works currently when you move adjacent to multiple mobs simultaneously. Does your chance of avoiding a mob first strike unchanged by the number of opponents?

Currently yes with evasion 3 I could leave my character standing next to two static monsters all day with 0 chance of them starting a combat (I didn't have evasion 3 when I fought the only set of 3 static enemies that I know of).

Either way, whoever goes first, all the mobs wind up sharing their ”inning”, alternating with your turn's worth of swings. I assume that monsters moving into range simply join the mob team's turn. Would Evasion give you a chance that the newly joining monster has to wait a turn before getting a swing? That would be a very big deal. Otherwise, I don't see how first strike affects this side of the equation at all.

I assume that the out of combat monsters will only be moving during the mobs turn, meaning that they can only join during that turn. Hopefully the mobs that join an existing combat will have expended some of their AP on movement and so will not get an entire turn's worth of attacks.

Incidentally, why don't monsters move diagonally?

simplicity of programming for pathing reasons perhaps? (no guarantee that it will continue in 0.7.0

Thanks for the clarification. I tend not to analyze things when I'm in mid-combat (thank goodness for potions lol) , so I never picked up on that.

I would think that the joining mob would have to account for AP move cost in determining remaining swings, and therefore I assume that the old mobs would get to swing before the new one. (This could make a difference if the first mob gives you an actor condition that reduces your BC, for example.) But I wonder if the new one would also have to beat your Evasion in order to get a swing at all in the combat turn it arrives. Anyone know the new code well enough to answer this?

Also, hope that diagonal movement is added, if not in 0.7.0 then soon.

[Tulkas]

Nice discussion guys. Good questions raised and nice answers. All very valid for how evasion will work with what monster movement.

[Pyrizzle]

Note: when fleeing combat move on a diagonal to escape or ensure that you keep moving away.

Excellent Advice! That is exact advice I'd give players after testing a game file that had NPCs that moved during combat. The extra second you have between moving away from the NPC and when they attack again can be the difference between living and dieing.

[Tulkas]

Note: when fleeing combat move on a diagonal to escape or ensure that you keep moving away.

Excellent Advice! That is exact advice I'd give players after testing a game file that had NPCs that moved during combat. The extra second you have between moving away from the NPC and when they attack again can be the difference between living and dieing.

Even Pyrizzle is dying in V0.7.0?

[Pyrizzle]

Note: when fleeing combat move on a diagonal to escape or ensure that you keep moving away.

Excellent Advice! That is exact advice I'd give players after testing a game file that had NPCs that moved during combat. The extra second you have between moving away from the NPC and when they attack again can be the difference between living and dieing.

Even Pyrizzle is dying in V0.7.0?

sorry Not playing V7, i was referring to when i was testing out a version that had an early version when NPCs move during combat. I had started a new build and couldn't get far because i kept getting swarmed.

[nyktos]

this thread would drive an editor absolutely bonkers...



great post though!

this is a huge hurdle in getting Oskar's Pathfinder working on a public version...